Class A Rules Proposal

For any discussion about the club as an organization
---------- ----------
Notorious
Drives: Whatever has more miles than anything on the grid
User avatar
Location:
Just within reach of storm surge
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 2308
First Name: ----------
Last Name: ----------
Favorite Car: Whatever has more miles than anything on the grid
Location: Just within reach of storm surge

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Jamie » Sat May 23, 2009 8:00 pm

Loren wrote:You can keep any car you'd care to registered, insured and tagged...You see this with SCCA Street Prepared (and stock, for that matter) all the time. They have a rule that requires the cars to be registered, so they are... but they're still not driven on the street... or driven to the events.
Actually, that rule went away years ago, even in Street Touring, which originally had a rule like this for much the same purpose -- eventually abandoned as practically unenforcable. In fact, the section defining eligible vehicles specifically says, "Cars need not be licensed or licensable for road use." The only mention of licensing for Stock, Street Touring, Street Prepared, and Prepared is that all cars must be "...capable of being licensed for normal road use in the United States...." -- part of a rule intended to guarantee their production origins.
Arguably (very), we're trying to fix something that isn't really broken.
Yep -- for someone who defines FAST as a place to "..."run what ya brung" and hang out with those kind of people..." you're spending an awful lot of time splitting hairs. Frankly, this is amusing...SCCA takes a ration of crap about classing and rules lawyers bent on winning at all costs, but locally, SCCA events are a mixture of cars prepared to the owners whim and run where they fall -- some well-prepared for the class, some not, and no one gets too bent out of shape. FAST, supposedly founded on "run what ya brung and have fun", is heading towards a class structure just as complex because people are complaining they can't win. It's good comedy.
Jamie
'01 Miata, '92 Prelude Si, '88 Alpina B10/3.5, '63 Suburban
Speed Demon Racing
Loren Williams
Forum Admin
Drives: A Mirage
User avatar
Location:
Safety Harbor
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 13044
First Name: Loren
Last Name: Williams
Favorite Car: A Mirage
Location: Safety Harbor

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Loren » Sat May 23, 2009 8:14 pm

Jamie wrote:It's good comedy.
Agreed. In this case, since only one person seems to have a problem with Class A, it's probably best to just let this proposal die.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
Howard --
Well-Known
Drives: 1979 Legrand
Location:
Clearwater
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 298
First Name: Howard
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: 1979 Legrand
Location: Clearwater

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby impalanut » Sat May 23, 2009 10:47 pm

Now I can abandon all the projects I have been working on since this discussion started
1-Helium in all tires
2-hidden nitrous system
3-gutting my muffler
4-extra strong piston return springs
5-carbon fiber interior
6-drilling holes in all body panels to lose weight
7-12" rims with 16" wide tires
Steve --
Forum Admin
Drives: whatever I can get my hands on
User avatar
Location:
St. Pete
Joined: November 2006
Posts: 5122
First Name: Steve
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: whatever I can get my hands on
Location: St. Pete

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Native » Sun May 24, 2009 10:01 am

So, then, Class A will continue for 2010 unchanged. Going once...
Steven Frank
Class M3 Miata
Proud disciple of the "Push Harder, Suck Less" School of Autocross
______________
I'll get to it. Eventually...
Brian --
Well-Known
Drives: 2017 WRX
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 191
First Name: Brian
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: 2017 WRX

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby muddy » Sun May 24, 2009 10:15 pm

I still say we should boot slicks to class R. No new classes necessary.
Loren Williams
Forum Admin
Drives: A Mirage
User avatar
Location:
Safety Harbor
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 13044
First Name: Loren
Last Name: Williams
Favorite Car: A Mirage
Location: Safety Harbor

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Loren » Sun May 24, 2009 10:25 pm

Just for the sake of argument... why?

What's the difference between one expensive non-streetable ("DOT approval" be damned) tire and another? Nobody in classes A, B or C are driving their competition tires on the street, what's the point of limiting them to DOT tires?
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
Dave --
Notorious
Drives: Isuzu Pick-Up
User avatar
Joined: January 2007
Posts: 848
First Name: Dave
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: Isuzu Pick-Up

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Dave-ROR » Mon May 25, 2009 1:18 pm

I never understood wanting to have the "fast car" for a class.. but I guess I'm more like Loren, and like the underdog/slow car to win because the driver put the time and effort into making it win.

IMO Class A is fine how it is. Once I start getting into track days again and have R comps on the Integra I'll have no issues running against Howard, even though I won't win. And if I do beat him, well it'll just be that much more fun.
-Dave
I drive really slow cars... really slowly.
Brian --
Well-Known
Drives: 2017 WRX
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 191
First Name: Brian
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: 2017 WRX

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby muddy » Wed May 27, 2009 3:31 pm

I don't suppose feeling like I am in an episode of Sesame Street counts as an argument, does it? One of these things is not like the other. . . . :lol:

I don't see why we can't accomodate the casual race tire autocrosser in addition to street tires. When you are at the point gutting the interior and running slicks, things have gotten pretty serious. Regardless, I will still enjoy competing in Class A next season, although my attendance will be sporadic.
Tim --
Notorious
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
User avatar
Location:
Stuttgart, Germany
Joined: June 2008
Posts: 907
First Name: Tim
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Tim_M » Wed May 27, 2009 7:49 pm

Nobody in classes A, B or C are driving their competition tires on the street, what's the point of limiting them to DOT tires?
I disagree...my auto is driven on the street 300+ miles a week as it is driven at the event (save for stiffer shock settings/no tire changes) and take value in that aspect.

I understand the trailer insurance (breaking, ease of prepping a car), but I also see the value in durability/streetability...(OLOA fan coming thru).

Howard's car is prepped unlike the rest of the class...but the rules are the rules.

I would support slicks bumping to class R...it seems Scott and Howard are more competition for each other than anyone else.

Autocross is still a blast no matter how the rating structure.

:D
Loren Williams
Forum Admin
Drives: A Mirage
User avatar
Location:
Safety Harbor
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 13044
First Name: Loren
Last Name: Williams
Favorite Car: A Mirage
Location: Safety Harbor

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Loren » Wed May 27, 2009 7:55 pm

You're a rare one, Tim! FWIW, if I were going to run R tires (and I've considered it on occasion), I'd be daily driving on them, too.

If the likes of a Yokohama AVS-I (remember those?) were the best street tires we could get now, I probably WOULD be running an R tire. But, with such fantastic street tires available these days, I just don't feel the need.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
Tim --
Notorious
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
User avatar
Location:
Stuttgart, Germany
Joined: June 2008
Posts: 907
First Name: Tim
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Tim_M » Wed May 27, 2009 8:44 pm

Loren...don't give me too much credit.

I'm in it for the (relatively) inexpensive price...my 'R' tires are Nitto IIR's with 100 treadwear rating. I'm able to get 10,000 miles out of these $176 examples.
Loren Williams
Forum Admin
Drives: A Mirage
User avatar
Location:
Safety Harbor
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 13044
First Name: Loren
Last Name: Williams
Favorite Car: A Mirage
Location: Safety Harbor

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Loren » Wed May 27, 2009 10:09 pm

Well, I wouldn't expect you to be driving 300 miles/week on Hoosier Autocrossers!
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
Carl --
Well-Known
Drives: C5 Z06
User avatar
Location:
Palm Harbor, FL
Joined: December 2007
Posts: 417
First Name: Carl
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: C5 Z06
Location: Palm Harbor, FL

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Agent » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:16 pm

Jeremy17 wrote:Carl would still be with Howard though, and Brian will actually be in a higher class using...
What makes my car different than Brian's? Both of us are in the same SCCA class as well (if he was to go he would be in SSM).
'03 Corvette Z06
-- --
Notorious
Drives: Faster than you.
User avatar
Location:
↑↑↑
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 817
First Name: --
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: Faster than you.
Location: ↑↑↑

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Jeremy » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:33 am

Agent wrote:
Jeremy17 wrote:Carl would still be with Howard though, and Brian will actually be in a higher class using...
What makes my car different than Brian's? Both of us are in the same SCCA class as well (if he was to go he would be in SSM).
They are different colors.

Ignore that quote above, I overlooked your supercharger.
-- --
Notorious
Drives: Faster than you.
User avatar
Location:
↑↑↑
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 817
First Name: --
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: Faster than you.
Location: ↑↑↑

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Jeremy » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:35 am

muddy wrote:I don't see why we can't accomodate the casual race tire autocrosser in addition to street tires.
Good point. I kinda agree with that.
Freakin' Drew
Notorious
Drives: Bewsted and 'squirted
User avatar
Location:
Tampa, Florida
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 939
First Name: Freakin'
Last Name: Drew
Favorite Car: Bewsted and 'squirted
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby AScoda » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:48 pm

Trying to get caught up with the new classing proposals so i'm a little late to the discussion.
I think Brian is just trying help encourage some more participation in class A with some closer competition, and that maybe Howard is scaring people off.
Not sure if it generate any more interest in A, but I think Howard and Scott running together in R is a great match. Scott has no competition so it will give some interest to the class. I don't think Howard cares where he runs and I can only remember a couple of other cars that have run with us that would be similar enough to Howard's level of prep to consider bumping. A red civic prepared to a simlar level as howards, EP also I think, and a spec miata that ran with us is all I can think of off hand and neither has been around in a long time.
My point is that its no really going to come into play often, so maybe we can just encourage Howard to run in R with Scott. It's a higher class so he has that option.
Come on Howard, do it! bump yourself!
Loren wrote:Freakin' Drew and his freakin' Mustang. :no:
dan wrote:Freakin' Drew and his freakin' Miata.
Rawkkrawler wrote:Freakin’ Drew and his OTHER freakin’ Mustang!
Scott --
Notorious
Drives: Brunton SuperStalker
User avatar
Location:
Crystal Beach, Florida
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 1184
First Name: Scott
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: Brunton SuperStalker
Location: Crystal Beach, Florida

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby snookwheel » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:24 pm

I'd love to have some company! Howard and I trade places back and forth. I do admit that FTD for me often means Howard must have hit some cones. :oops: I do like Tee shirts.. I bet I will like it even more when I actually earn it! :lol:

Seriously, I don't care who I compete against. I just want to get better at going fast. I won't speak for Howard, but I would not be surprised if he felt the same.




Enough of that... let's get back to the serious stuff. Somebody hurry up and buy the Solstice.
Scott

A Super Stalker, when my wife let's me drive hers..
Charles --
Notorious
Drives: Nissan 240SX
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 722
First Name: Charles
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: Nissan 240SX

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Charles » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:25 pm

I will be in A next year........not sure how competitive on my R-comp lites though.
Kenny --
Notorious
Drives: Subaru
Location:
Largo, FL
Joined: December 2006
Posts: 545
First Name: Kenny
Last Name: --
Favorite Car: Subaru
Location: Largo, FL

Re: Class A Rules Proposal

Postby Alizarin » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:09 pm

AScoda wrote:My point is that its no really going to come into play often, so maybe we can just encourage Howard to run in R with Scott. It's a higher class so he has that option.
Come on Howard, do it! bump yourself!
I think this is probably the best solution for FAST the club. Why get really technical with rules when we can just politely ask somebody to voluntarily bump themselves a class to R? I mean, I wouldn't blame them if they declined to do so, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
Kenny Gardner
2004 "Triple Nickel" WRX

Return to “FAST Related”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest