New classing/points

[Loren]

Let's not confuse the issue of classing with the issue of run order and event organization. Classing is classing, let it be that.

If we want to discuss how to run novices, whether to run by class or by car number (there are some merits to running by car number), or doing some sort of random grouping at each event... someone should start a new thread.

It seems like the issue of classing has nearly been decided by Jamie. In fact, if Steve concurs with Jamie... I'd call it done.

[Native]

I concur. It's a done deal!

We got Class, Baby!!!

and it's this, right :

Choice 1:

Eight classes, divided up by displacement, modifications, and tires

A - Modified race tire (all)
B- Production race tire 3 liters and greater
C - Production race tire less than 3 liters
D - Modified street tire 3 liters and greater
E - Modified street tire less than 3 liters
F - Production street tire 3 liters and greater
G - Production street tire less than 3 liters
R - Open or closed wheel race cars (all)

Modified cars are production-based cars with any of the following modifcations:

* Any internal engine modification (crank, cams, rods, pistons)
* Any external engine modification that alters fuel delivery (alternate carb, altered fuel injection, fuel-air ratio adjusters)
* Welded chassis reinforcement, including welded roll bars/cages
* Alternate or altered springs
* Altered suspension geometry (relocated pickup points, alternate suspension parts to increase factory alignment adjustment range such as camber kits, camber plates, or slotted strut mounts)
* Alternate main body panels (doors, hood, trunk lid, fenders, roof panel, windows)
* Removal of interior parts (seats, interior panels)

All other modifications are free. Street tires are DOT tires with treadwear rating of 140 or above. Forced induction bumps engine displacement by a factor of 1.5.

[Jamie]

I have no class

Yes you do...it's G - Production street tire less than 3 liters.

And why aren't you registered yet?

[Native]

Thanks for the confirmation, and thanks to all the Classing committee members, and everyone else who contributed!

Jamie, does this make you the Classing Steward, or whatever title, for next year? If yes, great! If not, we still need someone to give the final answer to questions that will inevitably be presented...

I've asked Loren to add the classing to the website.

...so my class is GPSTLT3L? that's not gonna fit on my number panel...
register, oh yeah...

[blacksheep-1]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[Jamie]

Jamie, does this make you the Classing Steward....

You're asking me? I thought you were in charge?

I can do it.

[AScoda]

We may need to think about factory modified cars, and if they need a bump up from standard production to modified. Example: Subaru STI vs standard WRX and Charles' Saabaru in same class. Or, a Neon R/T. It's factory stock, but boosted and modified beyond a standard Neon.

[impalanut]

My thought would be any boosted car gets 1.5xdisplacement, it shouldn't matter if it's factory or aftermarket. Otherwise, factory should be production, otherwise you would have to have al list for any models that have higher levels of ability due to multiple factory models.

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with bumping for different trim levels on a particular car, but I would support unlimited update/backdate. So Charles could turn his car into an STi and still stay in production class as long as only OEM STi parts are used.

[Jamie]

We may need to think about factory modified cars, and if they need a bump up from standard production to modified. Example: Subaru STI vs standard WRX and Charles' Saabaru in same class. Or, a Neon R/T. It's factory stock, but boosted and modified beyond a standard Neon.

Again, we've deliberately drawn very wide circles around performance groups. A Corvette Z06, your car, and a '72 Delta 88 all compete in the same class. (Don't laugh...I knew a guy who ran a Delta '88 for a couple of years...embarrassed many cars.) An S2000, my Miata, and the Datsun 1200 in which I ran my first autocross (1172cc of screaming power) also run in the same group. Within that sort of spread, the difference between a factory tuner and the car it's based on is in the weeds.

My thought would be any boosted car gets 1.5xdisplacement, it shouldn't matter if it's factory or aftermarket.

That's the way it's applied -- for displacement purposes, boost is boost, no matter where it was installed. A factory turbo- or supercharged car can run in a production class, but it still takes the displacement modifier.

I don't agree with bumping for different trim levels on a particular car, but I would support unlimited update/backdate. So Charles could turn his car into an STi and still stay in production class as long as only OEM STi parts are used.

Which means to do it right, we'd have to start keeping track of model changes, maybe even part numbers.

Seriously, if everyone has changed their minds and now wants closely-defined competition potential, tell Steve now so we can choose a different set of rules. Starting to tinker with 'bump these cars up because they're class-killers" or "allow these modifications for one group of cars but not another" takes us down a different road. Everyone wanted the simplicity of the old Sunriders rules with a little more in the way of performance leveling...that's what we have. If I want a 2001 Mazdaspeed Miata, or if Charles wants a Saabaru STi, then we'll both suck it up and run in a modified class.

[impalanut]

I agree, keep it simple. If you really want to go fast just run group A

[Loren]

The decision has been made. It can be revisited at the end of the season to see how it worked.

I'd suggest a moderator lock this thread, it has served its purpose.

BTW, this stuff is posted on the website:
http://www.wedrivefast.com/rules.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mx5er]

And the trophies are how big Seriously, let's just set up something simple to start with and if a particular car is dominent in a class, just bump it up.

I personally could care less if an STI beats me. I'm more interested in how a similar to mine Miata does. I plan to run some SCCA events this coming season and they are way more serious than anything FAST will be involved in! I look forward to keeping it simple and just have some fun

Ron Camacho
'00 Black Miata #3

[Anonymous]

I plan to run some SCCA events this coming season and they are way more serious than anything FAST will be involved in!

For the thousandth time, SCCA events are not more serious than any other event. You have never even been to an SCCA event, so you are talking out of your ass.

For reference, I easily won my class for every SCCA event last year. I have NEVER won a Sunriders, or NASA event in 5 years.

[blacksheep-1]

I have never actually seen someone talk out of there a$$, could we have some pics?

[mx5er]

I plan to run some SCCA events this coming season and they are way more serious than anything FAST will be involved in!

For the thousandth time, SCCA events are not more serious than any other event. You have never even been to an SCCA event, so you are talking out of your ass.

First of all, you don't even know who I am! I have been a SCCA member for 25 years and was autocrossing in the late 60's with the WNY Autocross Trail while living in Buffalo. Where were you in 1968? I have more track time than you have ever had. Not only autocrossing experience but road raced for 5 years finishing 3rd overall in ITD in the highly competitive San Francisco Region of SCCA in the 1992 Regional Championships and finished 2nd overall the next year in Solo 1. Although my driving skills have diminished; I still enjoy taking my Miata to events. My advice to you would be to be careful what you say on this forum and do a better job of researching your subject before you make a fool out of yourself.

[Native]

Peace out.

this thread is now locked, as suggested.