Non-Comp Entries.

[treekiller]

I know with the Huge amount of runs we allready get this is not going to be that big of a seller, however allowing the option of a single driver with dual registration may Graft us some additional revenue without adding any cost.

there are a couple things required.

we will NEED to have at least 3 run groups.
(3 seems to be the naturally occuring number for most fast events)
run 2 work one.

All NON comp drivers need to do their competition runs FIRST we will only get a few people willing to pay for this so them running out of group will not be a major issue.

NC is just logged as a raw time class at each event. so they can see their results posted.

since adding NC drivers does not add to any costs or labor, no lunch No waver, no Wristband, no tech etc. the concept is to allow them to run their second group at 2/3 price. or an additional $20 (If the registrar is sharp they can upsell NC runs at registration)

many people don't get out to many autocrosses so the extra runs are a welcome addition, the revenue is nice, and it allows to vurtually have bigger events with smaller turnouts. (A requirement at SPC)

in reality there is no downside. the 3-5 extra entries will not effect the flow of the event. this was a HUGE seller in SCCA when 4-5 runs was MAX
I know I'd pay an extra $20 to run 2 sessions.

[treekiller]

So I'm going to take no reply as "yes jeff, you really are smart" sounds like a great idea. if so I'd like to have the NC class added to myautoevents, and @ registration. if no-one takes advantage of it there is no loss and no gain.

so far the sheer apathy I've seen toward this club from the majority of "members" is a bit disturbing. without an offical monthly meeting It's easy to get caught unprepaired. perhaps this should be a focus, right now fast is running reactive, not proactive.

Jeff

[kickslop]

So I'm going to take no reply as "yes jeff, you really are smart" sounds like a great idea. if so I'd like to have the NC class added to myautoevents, and @ registration. if no-one takes advantage of it there is no loss and no gain.

so far the sheer apathy I've seen toward this club from the majority of "members" is a bit disturbing. without an offical monthly meeting It's easy to get caught unprepaired. perhaps this should be a focus, right now fast is running reactive, not proactive.

Apparently not smart enough to post this in "General" which is related to all club discussion.

And apparently not smart enough to wait more than a busy weekend for a reply.

And apparently not smart enough to leave the snide attitude at the door.

Now, if Steve would have his way, I would not post what I am about to post. And if Steve has a problem with it, I am sure I will hear about it, but I'm not going to sit by and let this pass. These are MY WORDS, not the CLUB'S. I am an unspecial MEMBER of the CLUB.

Listen, Jeff, we're a laid back group of autocrossers who plan to improve the club a bit every few months. I'm sorry this does not meet your time schedule, including the 3 days over a weekend where you got no response to your brilliance (if you want to have attitude, others can too).

In the last 4 months, your slovenly group of apathetic "members" have:

* Come up with a logo and working forum in 1 week's time

* Turned the timing equipment from a tempermental pile of wires to a dependable system

* Purchased and 90% gotten up to speed with timing + registration software to make the events better for everyone

* Completely revised the event chairman guide so that it can start being used

* Held 4 successful 1st events

So, frankly, if you want to get INVOLVED in the club, then you can do so by picking any number of the apparent shortcomings you've found and improving on them. But there's NO ROOM for bitchy negative attitudes.

As to your SUGGESTION, unfortunately buried in your apparent disgust of our pace, I definitely think it's an interesting idea and I'm sure the rest of the 6 apathetic members who actually frequent this forum will reply with their thoughts in a timeframe that is unacceptable to you.

[Dave-ROR]

Simmer down

This is a small club that likes to have fun, most people don't read the forums at all, or if they do, it's shortly before or right after an event.

I haven't replied because I don't really have an opinion on the NC runs one way or the other. If people want to pay for it, so be it. However, it would have to be taken into account at registration, if we have say, 45 drivers, and split them evenly (yes this is basically never going to happen), then one group gets to pick up cones for say, 20 cars (15comp+5nc) where everyone else gets to run cones for 15 cars only, and since that group would always be those working 3rd RG, at the hottest time of the day, we may have to purposely put the smaller groups there to avoid pissing those people off.

I doubt I'd pay for the extra runs personally, especially with the 6-8 runs we've been getting, but whatever works best for the club.

[Alizarin]

Jeeze, I come back from 5 days out of town and I get to read this?

Jeff (Blaine): Don't forget about how everybody stepped up for last month's event when the chairman couldn't make it, registration volunteers couldn't make it, the competition director (Steve) couldn't make it, etc.


My only comment about N/C runs is that if it reduces the number of runs to the "general" registration populous, its a bad idea. Its not a good message to send that if you want more runs beyond a reduced number you need to pay extra. I do realize that Jeff (treekiller) had said it counts as a dual registration, and we would need to enforce the limit as such.

[Bone]

Here's my 2 cents.....

I'm not interested in shagging cones for NCs.... as it will take time away from the number of runs we normally get, and we will necessarily wrap up later. So..... if enough people want to do it, have an end of the day NC group (they can come late) and have them run, time, and shag themselves. They can also clean up, and Bill can leave early as someone else will have to tow the trailer.

In addition, anyone that makes the normal runs can stay and get more time in if they want, or they can teach someone else (like their spouse) about autocrossing.


Here's a predicate question.... do we really need the extra money?

RC

[treekiller]

I understand, No offense taken, A negative emotional response is better then no response. I like to see someone emotional, that shows heart, and pride.

I'm not laid back, never will be laid back. My life since I moved to florida has been in the car business and had my weekends taken up by my career. finally I can concentrate on what it is I enjoy and do well.

The timing and scoring system, (this is one of my favorite items) while I'll disagree we are Pretty far form where we need to be, is an awesome move in the right direction. we have to get it to run for an entire event before we start celebrating. then getting the system to automatically input registration and output results is a huge task. I know I've done it. but that is somthing that requires someone to take on the Trailer and power getting that setup to be reliable.
(I DID offer to do this BTW)

As one of the first people to successfully setup a Barcode Registration and Staging system, With Live class ticker, and Remote Registration terminals. I know what is involved. and It's a lot of work. it needs finnancial support and more then a single person working on it.

heck the first autocross I ever attended in 1992 ran off a dos foxpro database (this is what I enherited) and calculated class results and overall times on the fly. so having these things working is no acheivement in 2007 It's a requirement to hold events. to be honest we should have a team or taskforce dedicated to bringing the systems and items up to date, a long time ago.

If the club needs a PC it should buy a PC. Once again I dealt with the whole trying to make donated equipment work. many times It's not worth the time investment. I don't know what your time is worth but at the time I was billing $96 an hour (1996 money) and hardware is so cheap nowdays. get a cheap tower, since we are running 120volt, it can serve the future as a T+S server. once you start having multiple computers accessing the database the extra speed and horsepower will be a blessing.

I know I'm rambling, it's just there is soo much that I see and very little being done. (minus the few that do hustle and they know who they are.) I'm just amazed that so much effort is spent stuff like Course Maps when really there are more pressing issues. IMHO course maps only hurt Novice competitiors, and if I see someone looking at the map on the starting line, or worse taped to their dashboard I truly get concerned for the courseworkers saftey. The first step is issuing people titles, and making them responsible for their departments. Cheifs of, Trailer, T+S, Tech, Novice, registration. etc. as long as that person knows that their job will be done that event or can delagate the job it will go smoothly.

I noticed it last week, our T+S person was working gate when he allready had a full list of jobs to do when he got to the trailer, this just slowed the pace of the event. and did not give us adaquate time to get the new system 100% running. heck I had to ask 5 people and no one even knew we had a generator, better yet how to work it.

That's enough rambling. if the club is happy about the way things are going so be it I won't interfere. however I see a lot of potential. and we are so close to getting it right.

[Dave-ROR]

As I've said before, I'll volunteer for whatever I have time for. I also plan some very large events so it's not like I have tons of time but I like FAST soo...

BTW, One of the things I do like is the laid back atmosphere, and while making it easier for people to see, in real time, where they stand time wise is great, I'd rather not get to the point were we are all business...

Anyways, if the club leaders (whoever they are ) want something done and it's something I can help with, I'll help.

[kickslop]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... personally, the second FAST becomes like other clubs, I'm done.

This is not a corporation nor a club with plans of national competition. It is a region-specific autocross group where a casual nature, fun, and 6+ runs are the rule.

We'll get the timing/reg software working 100% in the next 2 months and easily get other people trained with it. As it is, one person knows the ins and outs and that's perfectly fine. In no way did Kenny hold up *anything* at the last event due to being out at the gate until 9:05AM.

Where we have the volunteer man-power and budget, I am sure we'll do whatever we can to make the events better for attendees. There is, however, only so many new tasks a group can tackle at once.

And no, having a computerized registration and timing system isn't a "requirement for holding events". Sunriders and NASA-X did without it for years. While you may consider it "no achievement to have this in 2007", we didn't have it before, and we're 90% of the way to having it in 2007... so uh... I'd say that was an achievement.

I apologize if we're not cool enough to have figured this out running Minix on a 1.44MB floppy in 1990. You're obviously a trailblazer. Congratulations.

Anyway, if you'd take a pause from flipping out about what you think sucks about us, you'll see plenty of discussion in the proper forum, as well as the old NASA-X forums... by the small handful of people who keep this club working well, and I barely consider myself on the fringe of that group, so don't think it's back-patting.

[Anonymous]

I don't like the non-comp runs, unless the people are willing to pay full price twice and work 2 shifts. Which would make it almost impossible to do unless they did one of the early shifts or something as well as a normal shift.

I like most of Treekiller's other ideas.

[Native]

I don't like the non-comp runs, unless the people are willing to pay full price twice and work 2 shifts. Which would make it almost impossible to do unless they did one of the early shifts or something as well as a normal shift.

as it will take time away from the number of runs we normally get, and we will necessarily wrap up later

My only comment about N/C runs is that if it reduces the number of runs to the "general" registration populous, its a bad idea. Its not a good message to send that if you want more runs beyond a reduced number you need to pay extra.

Jeff, the idea of fun runs has been discussed repeatedly in the past, and the above quotes are the gist of the reason we have, repeatedly, decided not to do it: it complicates registration/coordination, takes time we really don't have, and the extra money isn't gonna be worth it. When we get ourselves a little more coordinated, and can make an event go more quickly, we'll just add more regular runs - the majority of our "customers" want that anyway.

Here's a predicate question.... do we really need the extra money?

That one's hard to answer, as it depends how much we want to spend. But let's put it this way: as long as we keep maxing-out our event registrations the way we have, we'll be fine, and as the season wears on should be able to purchase "new" items as Jeff suggests, such as a new, powerful computer. However, as it stands right now, there are other budgeted items (event award decals, for example) and higher-priority items (since we DO have donated computers to use) that we should spend our money on instead.

I like most of Treekiller's other ideas.

Ideas, yes, there are some good ideas, like continuing to iron out computer timing and results, designating individuals to do certain jobs, or to delegate those jobs at a given event if they can't (will make Chair a lot easier), etc.

I'm not laid back, never will be laid back.

Yes, we are aware of that. However, "the club" IS laid back, and while "the club" probably agrees with many of the points you have made, I think it's clear that "the club" is happy with (and proud of) the pace with which things are progressing. There are plenty of autocross events to pick from, and the fact that our events fill up suggests we're making people happy, and showing them a good time...and that's the philosophy upon which we founded the club.

[treekiller]

Thank you,

Kickslop, I was not intending to piss in your cornflakes.

Please take what I say with a grain of salt. I am very direct, so if it offends you forgive my curtness. However I am what I am. I learned this years ago. If 1/2 of the people love me and 1/2 want me dead I'm pretty happy to have gotten a reaction from everybody.

Thank you to everybody that answered my question it's apparently No-interest... Thank you once again. This thread can be killed.

And I'll always say it no matter what your goals are weather it be 1 car and 600 runs a day and home by 3 or to run 200 cars for 3 runs the fundamentals to run a good event are the same. Good equipment, good planning, good execution. More cars are needed for good competition, and more runs are needed to help the $/seat min ratio.

What do I want to see? I’d like FAST streamlined enough to still give 8 runs even if all 60 people show up and maybe... just maybe… add another 10 entries and still get all the runs. And in the future if I can get the supporters maybe branching out to a rally, rally cross, or track day. I don’t know of any clubs that put on decent brisk road rallies in Florida, this is a core interest of mine, a good autocross program allows a club to try new and exciting things, even ones that loose money. Since your building “Followers” of the club, not just members. And if you’ve never run sweep or a checkpoint at a “brisk” rally you’re missing out.

If someone looks at me and says “we are only going to run 60 autocrosses and nothing more ever” then I know not to waste my time.

Best Regards
Jeff

[Jamie]

I'm not laid back, never will be laid back.

OK...every club needs some not-laid-back people around. Before working wholesale changes to the club, though, apply the energy where we know we need it: volunteer to chair an event. Run wild -- one of the advantages of not too many rules is not too many restrictions. As long as it doesn't compromise safety or use of the site, I think we'd all be willing to let you try something innovative (at least once). See if you can improve on my goal -- set everything up to run so smoothly you don't even have to show up....

If you still have more energy than you know what to do with, volunteer to chair another one. (Or come up to my garage and finish rewiring my truck...I'm certainly not finding time for it....)

[kickslop]

For the record, I've no issue with directness. By all means, make a point and make it directly.

Just don't call the majority of the club apathetic because you didn't get a response to your idea in your decided timeframe, then proceed to dismiss efforts you've had no part in ... as trivial.

Leave the pissyness at the door, please (and yes, I've been asked the same thing of ME many times before).

treekiller, I sent you a PM. Let's squash this.

[treekiller]

jamie, call me on this weekend, as long as your willing to supply the beer, I'll bust my ass, all I ask is a good helper and a ride home when i'm shitfaced.

kikslop, I responded to your pm, and once again thank you for your input, it got me the answer I craved. and the fact of the matter is we have 30-60 regular autocross parcipitants and 7-9 (guess) people that actually really do a lot for the club. so imho that is a minority. the laid back attitude is great , however it does not motivate people to move forward, and imho that is what will draw in the new blood. be the best, people DESIRE to work with the best even if you have to bribe the hard workers, eventully their pride will take over. and it all comes down to money. <-- topic related mention

I desire to work with fast because they have the potential of being the best and are most adaptable to quick change... I've spent my time fighting a 300 member general meeting. it's not worth the effort, although I did get my way.


Regards
JL

[Loren]

20% seems to always be the "maximum" for any type of club's "make-it-happen" core. The trick is to constantly be on the lookout for the fresh, motivated people. Pull them into the fold and get them involved because if you don't... eventually (sooner rather than later), you'll lose some members of the core and the remainder of the core can easily collapse over the added load on them.

Division of responsibilities and constant training of new folks on the different areas of responsibility is the name of the game.

[Native]

The trick is to constantly be on the lookout for the fresh, motivated people. Pull them into the fold and get them involved because if you don't...

absolutely. and in fact, there have been several people who have become much more directly involved over the months since FAST came to be, and several more, some of whom have posted in this thread, who are directly asking to be more involved, but are simply new enough to the club to not know what to do. and as you said, some "old" members have reduced their involvement. Expected evolution, and no collapse - it's all good.

[Dave-ROR]

The trick is to constantly be on the lookout for the fresh, motivated people. Pull them into the fold and get them involved because if you don't...

absolutely. and in fact, there have been several people who have become much more directly involved over the months since FAST came to be, and several more, some of whom have posted in this thread, who are directly asking to be more involved, but are simply new enough to the club to not know what to do. and as you said, some "old" members have reduced their involvement. Expected evolution, and no collapse - it's all good.

And some really really old members (1999, 2000 or so) who have come back

[d_rasp]

For a laid-back club, we've got a ton to be proud of. Maybe not all of it is evident to a new member.

The difference from last year to this year is HUGE. Our turnouts have got to be at least 30% better on average, everything seems to be better organized, we survived yet another huge shift in organization (NASA-X to F.A.S.T.) and we've managed to keep the "laid-back" rep!

I was a piss-poor Director, but I did manage to fill the gap between Loren & Chad hitting the wall & Steve being ready to take over. Jeff, if you'd been around to witness this, you would've had stronger words about our appathy. Heh. Anyhow, my point is, the club seems to be doing better than ever & after seeing all the new faces @ the novice school, I have no concerns about our future health.

edit - I know it's already dead, but I don't care at all for the idea of N.C. runs. I think the ONLY 2 options that make sense if we end up with extra time on our hands are 1) giving everyone extra comp. runs or 2) going home EARLY!