Run groups

[shakedown067]

Couldn't agree more there Loren. On a side note, is it Sunday yet? I'm ready to roll!

[Jamie]

Are there really that many walk-up first timers?

It runs about 50%.

If there are, maybe we could compromise on walk-ups and allow a limited number and ONLY if they are truly a first-timer? Going that route, we could allow a first-timer walk-up entry at ANY time as long as we had someone handy to shadow them, which would be cool.

Since pre-registration normally fills before the cut-off date, people who missed it normally do so because they waited a bit too long and we hit our target number first. There are also one or two with dynamic work schedules who we only see as walk-ups at SPC events (they also know the ropes and get there at the crack of dawn to get on the list). It's unfair to penalize those folks, but not others.

Not sure what's implied by allowing a first-timer walk-up entry at any time. Walk-ups are not possible at all for Brooksville events because of the airport security rules. Trying to take an entry in the middle of an SPC event would be disruptive -- we'd have to keep an experienced person available to register them, tech their car, show 'em the course on the fly, and otherwise shadow them, as you say. It's great that we bring alot of newbies into the sport, but I'm not sure leaning that far forward is worth the effort it would take.

[Loren]

Trying to take an entry in the middle of an SPC event would be disruptive -- we'd have to keep an experienced person available to register them, tech their car, show 'em the course on the fly, and otherwise shadow them, as you say. It's great that we bring alot of newbies into the sport, but I'm not sure leaning that far forward is worth the effort it would take.

Might not be worth it, it was just a thought. I was carrying Steve's "walk-up first-timer friendly" notion just a bit further.

As for going pre-reg-only making it difficult for people with unpredictable work schedules, I feel for them, but it's getting to the point that we really do need to do something to keep our events from growing even larger. We "could" run larger events, but it changes the flavor of the events, makes them less "fun" and more "work" to run, and we've already let ourselves squeak past the limits that we'd set in the past.

I think we have a pretty liberal event credit for cancellation policy. Why can't the person with an iffy schedule just register with the intent to make the event, and then cancel within 24 hours of the event if work interferes? For special cases, we "could" even allow a person (especially a military, police or emergency services worker) to give us advance notice that they may have to cancel at the last minute. With that courtesy heads up, we could give them credit even for being a "no-show".

[shakedown067]

I think we have a pretty liberal event credit for cancellation policy. Why can't the person with an iffy schedule just register with the intent to make the event, and then cancel within 24 hours of the event if work interferes? For special cases, we "could" even allow a person (especially a military, police or emergency services worker) to give us advance notice that they may have to cancel at the last minute. With that courtesy heads up, we could give them credit even for being a "no-show".

Once again, I agree with ya Loren.

[rojeho]

Not sure what's implied by allowing a first-timer walk-up entry at any time..... It's great that we bring alot of newbies into the sport, but I'm not sure leaning that far forward is worth the effort it would take.

We could also make an effort to keep them engaged but not participating on that day. Find someone experienced for them to walk with/ask questions, then go for a ride or two. That experience should be enough to get them to pre-register for the next event.

[Native]

it's getting to the point that we really do need to do something to keep our events from growing even larger. We "could" run larger events, but it changes the flavor of the events, makes them less "fun" and more "work" to run, and we've already let ourselves squeak past the limits that we'd set in the past.

Standing by a predetermined limit is easy. We just haven't done it. I've said more than once, "we've never turned away a walkup at SPC...but we could." And we could. We could still allow walkups (the dedicated ones there at 7 who really want in) and limit our events to a manageable, "fun" number of entrants.

[Jamie]

I think we have a pretty liberal event credit for cancellation policy. Why can't the person with an iffy schedule just register with the intent to make the event, and then cancel within 24 hours of the event if work interferes? For special cases, we "could" even allow a person (especially a military, police or emergency services worker) to give us advance notice that they may have to cancel at the last minute. With that courtesy heads up, we could give them credit even for being a "no-show".

Some have done those things, and we've always given event credit. I think we can do it one way or the other, but since keeping repeat customers is usually easier than attracting new ones, I don't see giving first-timers a break to walk on and denying it to folks who've run with us before -- especially if they come out regularly. If we're that worried about attracting new blood in, better to step up our presence on Tampa Racing and other local enthusiast sites -- make the pre-registration aspect clear, and everyone gets the same shot. If there's hesistation, there's also no restriction on just showing up as a "non-driving participant" -- the info box regularly gets notes along the lines of, "I'm not ready to enter my car yet, but I'd like to come out and see what this is about."

We haven't promised anyone a certain number of walk-ons this weekend, either -- we can set the cutoff wherever you guys desire.

[Native]

If you both (Jamie and Loren) think it's worthwhile to end walkups at SPC, I'll give in. If we find our attendance suffers, we can always revert.
But if that's waht we decide to do, I'd rather wait until the next SPC event, so we can really get the word out in advance - 3 days notice to change what we've done for years isn't enough.

[Loren]

If you both (Jamie and Loren) think it's worthwhile to end walkups at SPC, I'll give in. If we find our attendance suffers, we can always revert.
But if that's waht we decide to do, I'd rather wait until the next SPC event, so we can really get the word out in advance - 3 days notice to change what we've done for years isn't enough.

No, I definitely don't have the intention of trying to make a change in the way we do things 3 days before an event.

I'd like to see us go to pre-reg only just because it's so much easier. You know who's coming, you can arrange run groups and all you have to adjust for is a handful of no-shows. Registration becomes like Brooksville, you just check people off on the list and sign waivers, no cash to mess with.

Newb walk-ups at SPC are a special case... at this point, we get so many new people that I'm just not sure we'd lose anything by telling that person who walked up that they can't register for this event, but they can register online for the next one. Odds are really good that that walk-up person has probably been to one of our events to watch before, probably read a lot of our website, and likely even lurked on the forum. That's just the way people are these days. They're only walk-up registering "because they can", not "because they have to".

All that said... I'm not the guy doing registration. If we want to pre-reg 65 and allow up to a total of 70 with walk-ups, as long as the Registrar types don't mind doing it, it's not a huge deal. Worst case we end up with 5 no-shows and 10 walk-ups, which doesn't change things too much.

So, my preference is to simplify and go pre-reg only... but, I'm flexible on it. What I'm less flexible on is letting our "small events" creep past 70 entries.

[Jeremy]

I like walking on because my mechanic's name is Charles. Never know what state the car is going to be in.

You mentioned a liberal cancellation policy, but that's only because you allow walkups. No walkups means when you pre-register you are taking a spot away from someone else. I don't think that's fair that someone can lock out a spot, not show up and then get their money back.

[Loren]

I like walking on because my mechanic's name is Charles. Never know what state the car is going to be in.

Bwahahaha!

You mentioned a liberal cancellation policy, but that's only because you allow walkups. No walkups means when you pre-register you are taking a spot away from someone else. I don't think that's fair that someone can lock out a spot, not show up and then get their money back.

We extend the same cancellation policy to Brooksville events. I get what you're saying, and if someone was to abuse that privilege, we'd likely remove that option for them.

BTW, we don't give "money back". We only give event credit.

I could see, if we go to pre-reg only, upping the entry limit for SPC events to 75 with the expectation that we'll get 5-7 no-shows. If we got all 75 entries at an event, we could deal with it, but 5 no-shows is pretty typical. That would allow 10 more pre-reg spots than we currently have in lieu of 10ish walk-up slots. Seems fair enough to me.

[Jeremy]

I don't like it. It makes the organizers life easier but has no advantages for the members.

Sounds kinda whiny and selfish to me. I don't like taking money at events, I'm not going to get my 10,000 runs in, I have to wait 15 minutes in between runs, boo hoo.

Sorry walk-on noobs, you have to sit near your computer at midnight 30 days prior to the event and register or you can't play with us.

No offense meant to anybody, I am just being a jerk. :heart:

[Jamie]

I don't like it. It makes the organizers life easier but has no advantages for the members.

Sorry walk-on noobs, you have to sit near your computer at midnight 30 days prior to the event and register or you can't play with us.

Keeping in mind that the organizers are members, it's a little give and take. If we were to go to pre-reg only, I'm not sure it would distress newbies that much. For many of them, they're not sitting at their computer...they're logging on from their phone while they're out somewhere. And our events don't fill fast enough that they have to pick up the first day -- there's usually a good two weeks register. If it's advertised well enough, that's plenty of time.

That said, my only point is we should treat everyone equally -- if we take walk-ons, anyone should be able to walk on, whether they've done no events or a thousand.

No offense meant to anybody, I am just being a jerk. :heart:

Everyone should have a hobby....

[Loren]

If we were to go to pre-reg only, I'm not sure it would distress newbies that much.

I agree. Folks will adapt.

If we do this, and by some strange twist of fate our attendance drops... we can always revert to plugging our events on TampaRacing and doing on-site registration. Policy can always change as it needs to.

[Solar]

I'm up late reading all this, and all that comes to my mind is the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Talk all you want, but this whole discussion comes down to the people that handle registration and the workers group. If they don't have an issue with it, then why spend all the time discussing it ?

Seems to me that we have never had a issue with walk ups at SPC. And if we ever do, ....well then lets make some changes.

Let's not get away from our FAST "roots". We are a fun club that welcomes anyone that wants to experience a Autocross without the "bs" that other clubs have.


Just my 2 ¢

[Jeremy]

Let's not get away from our FAST "roots". We are a fun club that welcomes anyone that wants to experience a Autocross without the "bs" that other clubs have.

Which clubs have "bs"? And what is the "bs"? Just want to know so I can avoid them in the future, thanks.

[Loren]

Seems to me that we have never had a issue with walk ups at SPC. And if we ever do, ....well then lets make some changes.

The one and only problem that we're on the cusp of is allowing our events to get too big. It's a problem that I'd prefer to address BEFORE it becomes a problem because it can affect the quality of our events.

It all ties together with the size of run groups, and whether or not we allow walk-ups or how many we allow or where we set the exact entry cut-off point and whether or not we "never turn anyone away". It's one big ol' knot, and it all has to be considered, hence the discussion.

As for BS... any club with more than 15-20 people in it is going to have some level of BS. It is unavoidable.

[Native]

The one and only problem that we're on the cusp of is allowing our events to get too big.

But that's easy - set a limit and stick to it. Want to cap it at 65? 70? Done. Walkups or not. If we do walkups, we allow to the preset limit, whatever it may be. And if we send someone away, well, that's the risk they took by not preregistering. Or like you said earlier, require prereg, and plan for a few no-shows.

I'd still like to allow the walkups...which kinda sounds like the way it's leaning...

[Loren]

I'd still like to allow the walkups...which kinda sounds like the way it's leaning...

There is definitely enough support to continue doing that, and since some of the support is coming from the Grand Poobah himself... let's do it.

Walk-ups allowed, hard limit of 70?

[nc4me]

I'd still like to allow the walkups...which kinda sounds like the way it's leaning...

There is definitely enough support to continue doing that, and since some of the support is coming from the Grand Poobah himself... let's do it.

Walk-ups allowed, hard limit of 70?

Agreed!