Event Entry Limits

[Jeremy]

Maybe it's just cause I am a loner, Dottie, a rebel... but how about we just forget to put our guests names on the list.

or

Accidentally combine the names like MaryAngela WheelerSmith

[Loren]

Maybe it's just cause I am a loner, Dottie, a rebel... but how about we just forget to put our guests names on the list.

or

Accidentally combine the names like MaryAngela WheelerSmith

Well, now that you've published that notion on a public forum... it doesn't seem like such a great idea.

But, really... we have only TWO autocross sites currently available. Is it really worth risking pissing off one of our site owners just to "cheat" a handful of guest names onto the list? We're of the opinion that we shouldn't "rock the boat" by trying to subvert the few rules that they place on us.

[rojeho]

75/0. If you really want a guest then it's just like buying a pit pass at a real race track

[Jeremy]

75/0. If you really want a guest then it's just like buying a pit pass at a real race track

That's true. You guys are talking about getting the guests "hooked" into the sport. Well there probably isn't a better way to get them hooked than to pay $30 and make them actually drive that day.

Wonder if I would have not tried this sport if I had ridden with someone first. Riding in the passengers seat feels so much more violent and out of control then actually driving does. I might have actually psyched myself out. I remember my first year, riding with some aggressive drivers in RWD cars on r-comps and thinking to myself, "how the hell are we not dead right now?" and "I could never drive like that."

Help your friends get hooked by paying their entry fee and then throw them to the wolves.

[puncturina]

Seems that some of the regulars most affected like Rob E and Terry G (and I'm sure there are others) have not yet weighed in on the matter. Would be considerate to see how important it is to them.

[Loren]

Yeah, we're not rushing to a decision just yet. It needs to be settled well before registration opens for the next Brooksville event, but that's not until May.

But, even if those guys are in favor of keeping some "guest" slots available, as we would expect them to be... if there is a great majority that thinks those slots should go to drivers, that's probably how it will go. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're ALL affected, and any driver who is sitting at home on race day while a guest is sitting out there watching an event is affected, and the guys who regularly bring a guest don't have a bigger say than anyone else.

[rojeho]

Seems that some of the regulars most affected like Rob E and Terry G (and I'm sure there are others) have not yet weighed in on the matter. Would be considerate to see how important it is to them.

My concern is that with only 5 guests, the people that regularly bring a guest are still going to have to compete for only a small number of slots. It's not like anyone will get that automatic slot.

[BigBlue]

.. You guys are talking about getting the guests "hooked" into the sport. Well there probably isn't a better way to get them hooked than to pay $30 and make them actually drive that day.

Help your friends get hooked by paying their entry fee and then throw them to the wolves.

Very well said, sir.

[snookwheel]

75/0. If you really want a guest then it's just like buying a pit pass at a real race track

In that case, it isn't about the drivers slot, it's about the fee, I'm not sure that is the real issue. If it is about the fee, then so be it, nuke guests.. But I feel that would be a mistake.

As far as people competing for a guest slot, I am sure with only a few available, folks will be motivated to sign up early if they want one.

Scott

[twistedwankel]

75/0. If you really want a guest then it's just like buying a pit pass at a real race track

In that case, it isn't about the drivers slot, it's about the fee, I'm not sure that is the real issue. If it is about the fee, then so be it, nuke guests.. But I feel that would be a mistake.

As far as people competing for a guest slot, I am sure with only a few available, folks will be motivated to sign up early if they want one.

Scott

I have observed that in a couple instances the "guest" functions as a necessary pit crew unloading/loading trailer or helping with changing tires and setup/fueling. I'm no longer hardcore enough to change tires twice a day or trailer a car either. BUT I certainly appreciate those that still do. My son crewed for me for 8 years until he was old enough to drive himself. Once upon a time Insurance Regs allowed an 11 year old to ride along too @ local events. Imagine that. An 11 year old with more seat time/season than most adults.

[Loren]

An 11 year old with more seat time/season than most adults.

SCCA's rules still allow that, as far as I know. (the limit is 10 for riding... and they'll allow kids in Jr. Karts to DRIVE at something like age 8) But, their insurance is a lot more friendly to that sort of thing than ours is. I guess when you're as big is they are, you can bargain for that sort of thing.

As to "pit crew". Do we need to allow 5 "guest" positions for that? As has been mentioned, there's no guarantee that "the right people" will get those guest slots. 5 of these young guys could sign up early and register their girlfriends as guests. Then we're in the same boat.

There's absolutely no easy answer here that's going to be "right" for everyone. I think having 75 driver slots is the most fair to the people who matter most: the drivers. And if someone needs crew, they register a co-driver. If their co-driver opts to not drive, that's fine. (silly, but fine)

At the risk of offending some people... FAST was not founded to cater to the kind of people who are "serious enough" about autocross that they require a "crew" to help them set up. We grew out of a casual Miata club autocross program where everyone pretty much showed up and autocrossed their daily drivers on whatever tires were on it. This is why the majority of our classes are street tire classes. The people who expect more than that aren't really our "target audience".

[twistedwankel]

Loren - Once again thanks for the enlightenment. You have alot of patience.

Nice to get a better picture of what the FAST formula is all about. It sure is effective.

On a side note:

I remembered about the BMW events held at Brooksville. They try to close the gate at 8am = ouch. Cap Drivers at 55. Assume that is because they try to guarantee 8 runs? The only one I ever went to was maxed out early but we non-bmw drivers didn't get bounced by the 5 extras. (I assume they give 60 driver names + some guests to the Airport the week before?)

http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/ ... 4FD23AA382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Loren]

Any club running autocross at B'ville has the same 75-person limit that we have, and "should be" submitting it within the same time frame. (again, we try to follow the rules... they want it 7 days prior, we give it to them 7 days prior and don't BOTHER them with late submissions... we try to be a good "tenant" and not make waves) I have no idea how the other clubs set their limits. I've run with most of them, too, and never had a problem getting registered. Of course, I have the luxury of knowing the B'ville gate combo, so if I showed up late, I may have gotten in, anyway!

I think SCCA or BMW club one or the other did hit me with a $5 late fee once for not being there by 8 or 8:30 or something.

[Lava Speed 05]

Ugh I had a long post written and my phone timed out the forum log in...

Anyway I am voting 75/0 for B-ville.

Some guests can be a great help to the driver and the group. For example Christina and my buddy Matt doing course work when we were short workers, but that shouldn't be necessary with an increase in drivers.

The issue of needing help loading and unloading a car from a trailer can be easily solved by asking one of our friendly members for a hand in my opinion. It should only take a few minutes and I would be willing to help a fellow member when needed as would others I'm sure. Plus we have so few who actually trailer and they usually have a Co driver to begin with.

[Loren]

True, Matt. That goes for lots and lots of things. People are willing to help, all you have to do is ask. We're a friendly and helpful bunch.

[snookwheel]

I could be wrong, but my observation has been that the 'pit crew' thing is pretty rare. A guest is usually along to see what it is all about or just to watch a friend / family member run.

Scott

[Loren]

I could be wrong, but my observation has been that the 'pit crew' thing is pretty rare. A guest is usually along to see what it is all about or just to watch a friend / family member run.

And we get that. If we didn't have the access list cap at Brooksville, this wouldn't be an issue.

Who do we choose to disappoint? The guy who can't bring his family out to watch him run, or the guy who can't register because the guy brought his family out to watch him run. That's what started this discussion. It's not an easy decision to make.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to decide. We live in an imperfect world.

[Gerry]

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to decide. We live in an imperfect world.

... but seriously, I think these events are for the drivers, not the guests. As much as I'd love to keep guests with me, drivers should have priority. We can easily fill 75 drivers at Brookesville if the slots were available. If you want to bring guests, waiting for an SPC event *or* just running with another club is a decent compromise. It's not like we're asking those people to quit the activity, we're just trying to accommodate the drivers, which are demanding more from the group than guests are.

[Lava Speed 05]

I could be wrong, but my observation has been that the 'pit crew' thing is pretty rare. A guest is usually along to see what it is all about or just to watch a friend / family member run.

Scott

I agree with you on that and I liked having a friend along but I would give up that convenience to allow someone else to register to race that was left out.
I was just pointing out people would be willing to help out where needed as someone else brought up the "crew" aspect for those who trailer vehicles.

[Gregbj8]

I have always brought a guest to Brooksville, either a friend or my wife but I believe the available slots should go to DRIVERS if we are consistently full. It is the drivers that make FAST what it is. The newbs can watch at SPC. I really would be ok with 75/0 so if you need a tiebreaker