Starter work position: my thoughts

[Gerry]

Ask anyone who's run timing before and they'll agree; having an experienced and good starter is crucial for smooth operation. When the timing trailer and the starter are gelling, we can fix problems much quicker and avoid a lot of them altogether. The timing booth can really get stressful when things go wrong, so I feel this is important. It's kind of like the connection a drummer and a bassist should have... if it clicks, it keeps the whole band together!

I was running timing during the second run group in today's event. I'm not quite sure who was the starter, but everything just meshed perfectly. He called out the car numbers reliably and clearly, responded very quickly to the radio, and used his own good judgement when needed. I couldn't have asked for a better partner. Yea, we had a few technical difficulties, but because the starter did such a good job of holding when we needed him to and sending when we needed him to, problems were minimized and fixed much quicker than normal.

So this is what I propose...

I think the starter position should be reserved for the more experienced and better qualified. It can really make or break an entire run group. I understand that everyone has to start somewhere, so I think the logical progression would be to learn timing first, then move to starter once you understand how the timing trailer works. I mean seriously, having a kick ass starter made a DRAMATIC difference for the better!

What do you all think?

[Loren]

A good starter could very well be a non-technical person that would be a disaster in timing.

We always try to put an experienced person on the start. And in the grid. And in timing. And on each corner. Each position is important in its own way. It takes good people on ALL of them to make an efficient event.

[puncturina]

Todd Byram was the starter for group two, and he is certainly one of our most experienced people.

It was especially important today to have the starter be on top of things, because the way the timing trailer was set up, it would have been hard to see some of the numbers from a distance, and you probably couldn't see through the grid to see the next cars in line.

I have worked my share in the timing trailer, and it can be horrible when the lights aren't tripping, course workers are yelling static into the radios, etc., etc.
But any one of the positions can be problematic depending on what is going wrong that day. I think grid can be tough, managing reruns, 2-driver cars, drivers switching cars, people missing when they are supposed to be running next, etc.

Anyway, I agree with Loren that a good starter/grid person might be a disaster in the timing trailer. I think we need to keep working on developing talent in the course worker pool for the various positions, but I don't think that working timing should be a prerequisite for working as starter.

[Jamie]

Ask anyone who's run timing before and they'll agree; having an experienced and good starter is crucial for smooth operation...I think the starter position should be reserved for the more experienced and better qualified....

Yes, grasshopper. You thought we randomly drew from a hat? Can't speak for Loren, but there were even some experienced people I would not put on starter. Or in timing. And a few not in grid, either.

I think the logical progression would be to learn course work first, then move to grid, then timing or starter once you understand how an autocross works.

Fixed that for you. Why the change? Because 1) Coursework is the fastest position to learn, 2) usually the most physically demanding, and 3) the best position to learn the effects of good and not-so-good workers doing start, timing, and grid. Spending time out on the course gives you an appreciation for spacing cars (a starter skill...also something safety watches), for keeping a steady flow of cars coming (a grid skill), for good radio technique (useful in timing), and when enough runs are enough (a event chair skill). Any decision or action by grid, timing, or start has an effect on the folks standing out in the heat on the course stations. Forget that at your peril.

Grid's usually the next place I send people (although not exclusively), because grid is half the equation for keeping the event flowing. Can't start cars if grid doesn't have them prepared and in line...not so evident in a 20-car run group, but it really shows when you double that!

Then timing or start, the difference being that timing really needs to be someone who's willing to put up with being the center of attention when problems stop or slow the event. Low-melting-point introverts do not do well in timing. Start must be someone the event chair really trusts, because more so than any other position, they're capable of preventing "oh shit" situations on course, whether it's a near-miss or just someone forgetting to put on their helmet. Both timing and starter need excellent situational awareness, because between them, they're managing the active pace of the event.

It's really useful to have a person who's good at all those positions, because they have an appreciation for how they all interact, but most people are better at one or two than others.

[Loren]

Yes, grasshopper. You thought we randomly drew from a hat? Can't speak for Loren, but there were even some experienced people I would not put on starter. Or in timing. And a few not in grid, either.

Absolutely. You have to play to people's strengths... and weaknesses... and limitations... and lastly their desires! (last event, something like 30 of 75 entries requested positions in Timing/Grid/Start/Safety or Tech... but it's good to know where they'd like to work even if we can't accommodate them all... especially when most of the requests are for Timing)

As people gain experience, and as they ask for it, they'll be plugged into positions like timing and grid (with someone who's more experienced so that they can train). Corner workers get trained by the experienced Corner Captains, and if you haven't seen an event try to run without experienced workers on course... you might underestimate the importance of that.

Starting is a position that we assign only one person to at a time, so if someone less-experienced gets put there (sometimes a particular run group just might not have an abundance of experienced people to choose from), you can bet that Safety will be shadowing them (depending on the course, Safety may do that anyway) while they learn the safety aspect of the job.

And if there are people who prove to be particularly bad at starting, or grid, or timing... we don't keep a list, but we remember.

It's really useful to have a person who's good at all those positions, because they have an appreciation for how they all interact, but most people are better at one or two than others.

The person who's "done it all", even if they're not good at all, usually makes the best Event Chairman. Of course, even then... Event Chairman is a position that not everyone is good at.

[Jamie]

...last event, something like 30 of 75 entries requested positions in Timing/Grid/Start/Safety or Tech... but it's good to know where they'd like to work even if we can't accommodate them all... especially when most of the requests are for Timing.

The funny thing is many people volunteer for some of these positions because they look like less work than working the course...and I've known a few to volunteer themselves back out once they find out the truth: that the timing trailer can be as hot as the course some days (metal box, computer equipment, no breeze); that grid may mean more running than working the course (finding where drivers have gone off to chat); that you absolutely cannot let your attention drift while starting cars (what do you mean you didn't hear "hold the start"?!); that safety and tech may not get to set up their cars or walk the course before the last minute (because they're checking the course and other people's cars right up until then).

There are days when being out on a corner station with another person or two to help is downright relaxing....

[WAFlowers]

I was working corner 1 and I think I only ran out once! Plus for the first work group I was in the shade. Probably the best place to be at the best time of the entire day!

Yep, I've worked timing, grid, starter, corners, event chair and probably everything else you can think of. Grid is one of the most physically demanding jobs; you need a lot of situational awareness plus you are constantly moving! Starter also requires an even greater amount of situational awareness plus excellent communication skills - both to timing and the drivers - and the ability to multi-task. Timing is technical and multi-tasking and fast paced. None of those jobs are easy!

For an easy job, having "done it all" in the past, I'll take corner worker any day!

[Gerry]

Ask anyone who's run timing before and they'll agree; having an experienced and good starter is crucial for smooth operation...I think the starter position should be reserved for the more experienced and better qualified....

Yes, grasshopper. You thought we randomly drew from a hat? Can't speak for Loren, but there were even some experienced people I would not put on starter. Or in timing. And a few not in grid, either.

I think the logical progression would be to learn course work first, then move to grid, then timing or starter once you understand how an autocross works.

Fixed that for you. <snip>

Okay, whatever you guys think works is fine by me. Whatever it takes to have a good starter. It really made a huge difference; that's all I'm saying!

[twistedwankel]

Like was mentioned: getting a very few AWOL's to stay for work can be a worker shortage PIA. I noticed one was from Chicago so probably never see them again either so they are laughing? He sure couldn't drive!!

I don't think there is any "easy" job at an autocross. Most are grueling for up to 1.5hrs in the heat or rain sometimes cold. All require paying attention constantly which is tiring AND mind numbing. I know the older I get the more heat zoned out I get so keep ice handy.

When one gets an injury (and cannot run like a bunny) they can learn 'timing' assuming they like or grew up with computers(?) To me that is like being fond of a dildo. Not interested. It's hard to turn on, you never know when the battery is going to die, the lights and whirlies get out of alignment and someone else always takes credit for when it works right. Kind of like an Rx8

The reason one puts "younger" people on the course is simply because "in theory" they move faster and have more energy. Not so anymore. Example: Of the two workers assigned my full sun station. One was probably as old as me and smoked (but not on course) and one was in mid-20's and was always whining about what run is this? I'm hungry but I can't eat pizza cause it gives me diarhia. What run is this? (Are we home yet?) I'll bet I can go get some nice food off site inbetween run groups. Guess who did most of the cone shagging? Right the old guy never had to be told to go get a cone. Guess who I saw later 3rd in line getting pizza?

Personally I don't like being the starter as it is exhausting watching the course workers, checking the driver for helmet/seatbelt and listening to the radio over the engine's roar. I find it to be my most unlucky job. Seems like something unpredictable always happens when I do that job. So I avoid it mostly.

I was a safety steward for years at big events and it got pretty nuts too. You end up having to be a real hardass with some people who think they are at an amusement park named "ME" and this is the bumper car ride. Not only do you have to get there early to check the course but you have to pay attention to everyone. Most people don't intentionally do unsafe things they just get distracted and forget basic things. That job really sucked so I quit doing it. Required constantly being schooled and reporting proper number of gigs to keep license up. Geesh.

The last time I did tech it was like "Where did they hide the needle." Batteries are all over the place now. Which cars have drive by wire? Lug nuts on after market wheels are all lock nuts. In and out of 70 cars and I was stiff for about two days after that. Oh and you have to get up really early too.

Grid is pretty straight forward if you have a loud voice to get drivers back to their cars and keep the traffic flowing, get reruns from timing and work them in after 3-5 minutes and get the two driver cars all their runs. You'd be amazed how many people get jawing at the timing area trying to figure out the computer screen and sometimes bugging the all ready busy staff there or decide to go take a whiz only 4 cars from their start.

The Event organizer and their asst. work a very long day but that is the only real way to learn just how much is involved in a simple autocross and how much time is involved to make it work and how many people you have to depend on. Some people are tireless workers to help pull it off irrelevant to what their actual "job" for the day is.

Without the trailer hauler = no event.
No lunch guy = grumpy hungry people.
No course set up = way delayed event = grumpy tired people late for supper.
No course tear down and clean up = not invited back to use that site again = end of autocrossing.

Who paid the site people, keeps them happy and got the confirmed dates? Who pays the insurance company and makes sure we remain in compliance? Who runs the website, pays the bills and keeps the records? Who maintains and stores the trailer? Who fixes and replaces the equipment? Who buys the year end t shirts and makes a nice trophy presentation?

It sure isn't me. Is it you? At some point one has an obligation to do some of these "other" jobs too.

[snookwheel]

.

Without the trailer hauler = no event.
No lunch guy = grumpy hungry people.
No course set up = way delayed event = grumpy tired people late for supper.
No course tear down and clean up = not invited back to use that site again = end of autocrossing.
No multiple cases of water & soda, 100+ lbs of ice, cleaning of coolers = thirsty, grouchy people.
.

Fixed that for ya

[Native]

Like was mentioned: getting a very few AWOL's to stay for work can be a worker shortage PIA. I noticed one was from Chicago so probably never see them again either so they are laughing? He sure couldn't drive!!

I don't think there is any "easy" job at an autocross. Most are grueling for up to 1.5hrs in the heat or rain sometimes cold. All require paying attention constantly which is tiring AND mind numbing. I know the older I get the more heat zoned out I get so keep ice handy.

When one gets an injury (and cannot run like a bunny) they can learn 'timing' assuming they like or grew up with computers(?) To me that is like being fond of a dildo. Not interested. It's hard to turn on, you never know when the battery is going to die, the lights and whirlies get out of alignment and someone else always takes credit for when it works right. Kind of like an Rx8

The reason one puts "younger" people on the course is simply because "in theory" they move faster and have more energy. Not so anymore. Example: Of the two workers assigned my full sun station. One was probably as old as me and smoked (but not on course) and one was in mid-20's and was always whining about what run is this? I'm hungry but I can't eat pizza cause it gives me diarhia. What run is this? (Are we home yet?) I'll bet I can go get some nice food off site inbetween run groups. Guess who did most of the cone shagging? Right the old guy never had to be told to go get a cone. Guess who I saw later 3rd in line getting pizza?

Personally I don't like being the starter as it is exhausting watching the course workers, checking the driver for helmet/seatbelt and listening to the radio over the engine's roar. I find it to be my most unlucky job. Seems like something unpredictable always happens when I do that job. So I avoid it mostly.

I was a safety steward for years at big events and it got pretty nuts too. You end up having to be a real hardass with some people who think they are at an amusement park named "ME" and this is the bumper car ride. Not only do you have to get there early to check the course but you have to pay attention to everyone. Most people don't intentionally do unsafe things they just get distracted and forget basic things. That job really sucked so I quit doing it. Required constantly being schooled and reporting proper number of gigs to keep license up. Geesh.

The last time I did tech it was like "Where did they hide the needle." Batteries are all over the place now. Which cars have drive by wire? Lug nuts on after market wheels are all lock nuts. In and out of 70 cars and I was stiff for about two days after that. Oh and you have to get up really early too.

Grid is pretty straight forward if you have a loud voice to get drivers back to their cars and keep the traffic flowing, get reruns from timing and work them in after 3-5 minutes and get the two driver cars all their runs. You'd be amazed how many people get jawing at the timing area trying to figure out the computer screen and sometimes bugging the all ready busy staff there or decide to go take a whiz only 4 cars from their start.

The Event organizer and their asst. work a very long day but that is the only real way to learn just how much is involved in a simple autocross and how much time is involved to make it work and how many people you have to depend on. Some people are tireless workers to help pull it off irrelevant to what their actual "job" for the day is.

Without the trailer hauler = no event.
No lunch guy = grumpy hungry people.
No course set up = way delayed event = grumpy tired people late for supper.
No course tear down and clean up = not invited back to use that site again = end of autocrossing.

Who paid the site people, keeps them happy and got the confirmed dates? Who pays the insurance company and makes sure we remain in compliance? Who runs the website, pays the bills and keeps the records? Who maintains and stores the trailer? Who fixes and replaces the equipment? Who buys the year end t shirts and makes a nice trophy presentation?

It sure isn't me. Is it you? At some point one has an obligation to do some of these "other" jobs too.

I take that all to mean that without volunteers, and a large variety of cooperative ones, FAST, or any other such group, won't work. To that, I say:

F***kin' A, Doug.

[garage west]

'kin-A.