Clutch Problems

[Dave]

I'll try to as brief, yet detailed as possible.

85% of the time, my clutch operation was completly normal. 15%, it was hard to shift and a couple times, while stopped, in first gear, clutch in, I would hear a small thud, the car would lurch, then ease forward with the clutch all the way in. Eventually, the percentages changed to about 50/50. and the whole time, there has never been any clutch slippage. Plus, I don't know when it started, but there was a slight, but noticeable vibration while stopped and at idle

So, I didn't see how the clutch assembly would go back and forth, from good to bad, so my diagnoses was either a hydraulics master cylinder or slave cylinder. So, I changed them both, and for about a day, all was good.

Then, a couple symptoms came back on my way to work yesterday. I parked, came back an hour later, and once started, it would not go into gear while running. If I shut it off, put it in gear, and tried to start, the car would move.

I had it towed to have it repaired, but now the honda dealer says it is all working fine again, and they cannot duoplicate the problem.

Question 1: If all is new down through the slave cylinder, isn't the clutch plate/disc/though-out bearing the only other option?
Question 2: Considering what you now know, the clutch assembly is original, and has 140K miles on it, would you just go ahead and have it changed?

Thanks for your inputs.

[RacingHart71]

If you have good engagement some of the time and no slipping there is a good chance that its your throwout or release bearing thats causing your issue. Sometimes they will make a squealing sound, giving themselves away as a bad bearing, but not always. The release bearing itself is fairly inexpensive...getting to it in order to replace may not be.

With as many miles on it and for what you like to do (autocross), you might as well get a clutch kit and do everything @ once.

-Royce

[twistedwankel]

Dave you are a very big man. AKA stronger than you realize.
I'd take a good look at your shifter linkage at the trans and inside at the shifter before I'd pony up for a clutch assy + labor.
If it still stalls from a stop in 3rd or 4th at idle when you let the clutch out it's not the clutch.
If the throwout bearing goes it usually take the fingers of the clutch with it and you cannot shift period.

Is it possible you didn't get all the air out of the line when you replaced the hydraulics?

I have to assume a Honda Mechanic occassionally has to fix something and remembers doing it?

Okay the bad. I had a 90 AWD talon that wouldn't go into gear with only 45k on it. I put a paper clip on the clutch switch and started it in 3rd gear to get home. They had a known issue with the synthetic syncros that they corrected in 91. I sued them and got a 91 transmission for free with two more teeth on the output shaft and brass or bronze syncros. They also replaced the transfer case. That cost a shitload of $$ on Chrysler. It withstood over 300 HP and never failed again.

[RacingHart71]

Good point Doug. OP...is it clutch engagement or actually the shifting lever? Is it all loose or binding?

With140k on them either could be due....shift bushing or clutch

[Tim_M]

That is frustrating.

I vote the hydraulics are still faulty...air in the system.

Corvette's slave was upside down so bleeding it was a pain. Any air would cause similar issues although more consistent.

Could heat be a factor on why it is inconsistent?

What do the dedicated Honda Forums say?

Good Luck.

[twistedwankel]

BTW: I'm only batting .500 on "aftermarket" new parts failing from the get go.

Just cause it's new....just saying. Even the local Ford dealer slides NAPA stuff in alot.

OEM stuff is just way better.

[jesup16]

BTW: I'm only batting .500 on "aftermarket" new parts failing from the get go.

Just cause it's new....just saying. Even the local Ford dealer slides NAPA stuff in alot.

OEM stuff is just way better.

+1. I replaced my entire clutch system when I rebuilt my car. The 'advance auto parts' slave cylinder only last 1500 miles. And it's not a super strong clutch...just crappy after market parts. Glad I went up a grade on the master cylinder when I had the car apart...

[stevesaei]

Dave, my vote is with Royce that it's a throwout bearing issue. Thud, vibration, incomplete disengagement = throwout bearing failing but not failed. Air in the master/slave doesn't usually pop from disengaged to engaged while standing still; it's usually a feeling on not having enough clutch throw to disengage the clutch. You might also have a clutch fork issue or grooved/worn clutch fingers. If you're sure it's not air in the lines, all of the other stuff will be apparent while you have the clutch apart.

Steve

Edit: If you have to take the car apart far enough to fix a throw-out bearing, why not replace the whole thing. 140K is great mileage for a clutch, but it can't be long before the whole thing needs to be replaced, as well as the rear main seal on the engine, which I consider is a must-do during any clutch service.

[dropped top]

Have you tried shifting without the clutch? That would rule out the shifter linkage issue.

[Dave]

Mystery solved, found a piece of medal holding in one of the springs on the clutch disc coming apart, and a crack in another location.

Thanks for the assistance and ideas.

[RacingHart71]

So where did the metal come from? Was it one of the pressure plate "fingers"? What was the fix?

[Loren]

Here's the photo Dave sent me the other day. Should answer your question.

[RacingHart71]

Oopsie! I once had a clutch assembly spit a spring right into the pressure plate...shifted fine, untill the day it no longer wanted to hang around and got jammed...then all hell broke loose.

Awesome that you did the repair before things got ugly!!

[Tim_M]

A Honda that broke...that is a first!

Odd failure...I've cracked clutch disks before...but that was with some American torque!

Glad you solved the issue!

[Loren]

VTEC, yo.

[Dave]

A Honda that broke...that is a first!

Odd failure...I've cracked clutch disks before...but that was with some American torque!

Glad you solved the issue!

Thanks Tim,

It also had a crack in the same spot, on the opposite spring.

[RacingHart71]

Whats the make of the clutch? Its not OEM is it? Its blue paint too "pretty".

[Tim_M]

I wondered about the blue paint as well.

My cracked disk came from Napa...both times.

[Dave]

Whats the make of the clutch? Its not OEM is it? Its blue paint too "pretty".

The assembly is original. This is the first clutch change.