about to buy tires...

[eborn986]

Hey all, I just want to see if anyone would talk me out of buying RS-3's... They seem to be popular among the group and holy crap they are so much cheaper than anything comparable. I'm pretty sure that's the route I'm going to go, but if anybody has anything to say against them, I'd love to hear it!

Thanks and see you all in a week!

[Loren]

Good tire. As long as you're not expecting them to last more than a year or so, you won't be disappointed.

They're probably one of the top 3 best "true street tires" for autocross. And, as you noted, they are also probably the best bang for the buck right now. Anything that is better is more expensive.

[twistedwankel]

Nothing will withstand your rear wheel torque but at least you have a method for removing flat spots on the fronts.

You need front end negative camber, positive caster more than you need anything.

RS3's wear very well, love the heat and you can flip them on the rims once they are 1/2 worn. You might get 18 months out of them which is as good or better than other 140 tires.

I'm on my second 10 months on the first set for Shamu and just flipped the fronts with no camber. Probably 70 runs and 4000 regular miles. The regular driving isn't what kills them.

[jbrannon7]

My RS3s are 3 years old and still have some tread, my car weighs 2905 without me and 1/4 tank of gas. In my car the key to saving the tires is lots of negative camber and checking the temps while adjusting pressures. I have been looking at the BFG and Star Spec IIs, the Star Specs are, or maybe were on sale at Tirerack for not much more than the RS3s. But I think I will buy the RS3s again. They seem to have done very well at the Nationals.

Joe

[eborn986]

thanks guys. Going to go with the RS-3's and hopefully will have them for next weekend!

Doug, plans for negative camber are in the works. Drew hooked me up with his old caster camber plates and coil-overs - that won't be done for next weekend, but maybe for october!

[twistedwankel]

May the Lord bless Drew.

Or at least give him more Camber.

A "used" Drew part is way better than a "new" Loren course.

[Ben]

My RS3s are 3 years old and still have some tread, my car weighs 2905 without me and 1/4 tank of gas. In my car the key to saving the tires is lots of negative camber and checking the temps while adjusting pressures. I have been looking at the BFG and Star Spec IIs, the Star Specs are, or maybe were on sale at Tirerack for not much more than the RS3s. But I think I will buy the RS3s again. They seem to have done very well at the Nationals.

Joe

Yeah right now I'm trying to decide between rs3s and the Star Specs as well, let me know what you end up doing.

[Loren]

I think RS3's are a little better than Star Specs. But, Star Specs are still damned good.

[jbrannon7]

I think RS3's are a little better than Star Specs. But, Star Specs are still damned good.

Agree, also the 3 top tires available today are all so good it takes a great and consistent driver before they become the determining factor.

I like that the RS3s really get better with heat, the star specs have a stiffer sidewall so they don't need as much camber and turn in with them seems to be a little more precise but I would still use as much camber as I can get. I have used the original Star Specs and they got a little greasy with heat. I have no first hand knowledge of the BFGs.

In the end what sways me is the RS3 do better in the heat and are $200 cheaper in my size. When I was in DC lack of heat was a problem in the spring and fall, down here, not so much.

Jo9e

[twistedwankel]

Until you are about 2 seconds behind your class leaders you are wasting your money buying new soft tires. Most people take years learning how to get the most out of their car on 300-400 Z rated tires that came on it. When you are within about 2 seconds of the class leaders on those 1/2 to 2/3's wornout tires you can probably beat them with a new set of 140 rated racing tires no matter what kind they are.

Yes you will be immediately faster than you were on your new $$ gummy tires but you will still suck and get beat by more than a second. Last is still last no matter how you spend it.

[islandmon]

I respectfully disagree with those who believe someone learning should learn on less than the best equipment.
I do agree some of the better tires will mask some of a driver's less than acceptable fundamentals. That being said - if you are somewhat consistent in your times and you can execute the fundamentals fairly well, a good set of tires is one of the best upgrades you can make for autoX.

As far as Star Spec vs R'S-3's, I've had four sets of Direzzas, 2 of the I series, and 2 of the II series AND
2 sets of R'S-3's. (on four different cars). I hated both sets of R'S-3's. if you are going to drive them on the street know they are terrible in the rain. They wear out in 8,000 - 12,000 miles depending how hard you drive them, and they are very finicky in regard to temperature and pressure.

The Star Spec 1's were better then the new R'S-3's IMO. The Star Spec II's are much better. Very,very predictable, not as finicky, and great in the rain.

Just my 35 cents.

[jbrannon7]

I meant that it would be hard for the average driver to tell much difference between RS3s, Star Specs and Rivals, not that they couldn't tell the difference between one of those top tires and an OEM DD tire. Sorry for the confusion but that happens when you try to communicate using brief text.

Just checking my logs. I put Star Specs on my car on 2/14/10 and replaced them with RS3s on 03/01/11. The star specs lasted 4k miles the RS3s have 7k miles on them and about due for replacement. 975 of those miles were to drive it from VA to FL.

Joe

[Loren]

Yeah, that's the way I read it, Joe. Any of the top 3 tires are going to perform "about the same" not just to a newb, but even to us experienced drivers most of the time. Look at the tire tests, the pros are getting within like .1 to .3 seconds with these different tires. At the most, maybe .5 seconds. Until you're so consistent that you can run back-to-back runs within half a second of each other on like your 2nd, 3rd and 4th run of the day... you're really not gonna notice much difference between those top tires.

Other characteristics besides how "fast" they are, you may notice. Like how they respond to steering input, how well they work with limited amounts of camber (a critical thing for some cars in stock classes), street manners (such as how loud they are, and how well they perform in the rain), and wear characteristics)

[Tim_M]

I've got 13,300 miles my current Dunlap Star Specs I...daily driven. Maybe only 2000 miles left. They are noisy and very square edged for grooves.

Saying that, switching to these from a set of Pirelli P Zero Nero...huge difference. And I'm speaking of having the car react the way you want rather than just understeer and slide. Much more enjoyable experience even if you don't overdrive the car like I did.

In other words, tires can also make autocrossing more enjoyable (hopefully faster too).

I'm going to try the Rivals next go around-because that is what GRM says...

[jbrannon7]

I may change my mind. My tire size is 255/40 17. The hankooks are $608 and the Star Specs are $654 on special sale with $50 rebate. I hate rebates. The RS3s weigh 26lbs, turn 830 revs per mile and have a tread width of 9.7", the Star Specs weight 27 lbs, turn 836 revs per mile and have a tread width of 10.0". The 50 rebate on the Dunlops is good till 9/30 so I can change my mind a few more times.

But the RS3s love the heat.

Joe

[jesup16]

I've only had experience with the R-S3's. Mine are holding up quite well. I drive on mine to all the events from Sarasota, so they get a decent amount of street mileage. I've got about 5 auto-x's on them. Also, I drove on them to Sebring for a NASA HPDE weekend. After 8 sessions on the track, I was impressed with how well they held up.

I've heard great things about both set's of Dunlop's. I applied the old formula of value: value = benefit / cost

Seeing that the cost was about $50-75 lower per tire(depending on vendor) when I purchased my set in April, that is what got me to the R-S3's. The benefit factor was about the same for my criteria: auto-x and track performance.

Keep in mind that I do not DD on these...if I did, I might have leaned toward the Dunlop's for wet weather performance.

[Dave]

I respectfully disagree with those who believe someone learning should learn on less than the best equipment.
I do agree some of the better tires will mask some of a driver's less than acceptable fundamentals. That being said - if you are somewhat consistent in your times and you can execute the fundamentals fairly well, a good set of tires is one of the best upgrades you can make for autoX.

As far as Star Spec vs R'S-3's, I've had four sets of Direzzas, 2 of the I series, and 2 of the II series AND
2 sets of R'S-3's. (on four different cars). I hated both sets of R'S-3's. if you are going to drive them on the street know they are terrible in the rain. They wear out in 8,000 - 12,000 miles depending how hard you drive them, and they are very finicky in regard to temperature and pressure.

The Star Spec 1's were better then the new R'S-3's IMO. The Star Spec II's are much better. Very,very predictable, not as finicky, and great in the rain.

Just my 35 cents.

I don't think it's that someone shouldn't use the best equipment their budget will afford them, but when it comes to tires, my couple years on less than ideal autocross capable tires taught me allot about car control.

[twistedwankel]

Last week in Lincoln only one driver in STX out of 59 was on Toyo's driving an '04 RX8. AND he won.
Sometimes it pays to form your own conclusion and somehow make it all work.



Street Touring Xtreme Drivers: 59 Trophies: 16 Run Heat: 1
T 1 91 Jeff Hurst 2004 Mazda RX-8 New York
[191] Hicksville, NY ANZE Suspension Northeast
78.598 78.244 79.518(1) 134.620
56.648 56.376 60.796(2)
Toyo
T 2 114 Andrew Pallotta 2013 Scion FR-S Neohio
[14] Cuyahoga Falls, OH Stranoparts/Moto-East Great Lakes (0.226)
78.347 78.273 77.890 134.846
63.231(3) 56.956 57.332
Hankook
T 3 66 Clint Child 2000 Acura Integra R Arizona B
Glendale, AZ Bhatch Racing/Pro Parts USA SoPac (0.284)
79.906 78.746 79.072 135.130
57.690 56.880 56.384
Hankook

[Loren]

Look closer at those times, Doug. He won, no disputing that. But...

If I'm reading it right:
Day one, he won by less than .02 seconds.
Day two, he won by .008 seconds.
(and that's assuming that none of the drivers who finished lower than 4th overall didn't have a "good day" and beat him on one day or the other)

You really can't draw any conclusions from that. Could mean that the Toyo is equivalent to the RS3. Could mean his car is better prepared and the tires aren't as good. Could mean he's just a better driver. OR... it could mean that the Toyo's are far and above BETTER... and the other drivers were better or in better prepared cars. Not enough data from one event and one driver to be able to answer that question.

Last week in Lincoln only one driver in STX out of 59 was on Toyo's driving an '04 RX8. AND he won.
Sometimes it pays to form your own conclusion and somehow make it all work.



Street Touring Xtreme Drivers: 59 Trophies: 16 Run Heat: 1
T 1 91 Jeff Hurst 2004 Mazda RX-8 New York
[191] Hicksville, NY ANZE Suspension Northeast
78.598 78.244 79.518(1) 134.620
56.648 56.376 60.796(2)
Toyo
T 2 114 Andrew Pallotta 2013 Scion FR-S Neohio
[14] Cuyahoga Falls, OH Stranoparts/Moto-East Great Lakes (0.226)
78.347 78.273 77.890 134.846
63.231(3) 56.956 57.332
Hankook
T 3 66 Clint Child 2000 Acura Integra R Arizona B
Glendale, AZ Bhatch Racing/Pro Parts USA SoPac (0.284)
79.906 78.746 79.072 135.130
57.690 56.880 56.384
Hankook

[twistedwankel]

http://www.scca.com/events/results.cfm?eid=5489


Here's all the results. 59 drivers. Or 1200 as the case may be. Form your own delusions.

I have been enlightened to learn that Stx is allowed to run E85.

Are you shitin me that's 105 octane with a tune......woohoo.

Everyone runs under the same rules.

Everyone has won or lost by .001 second in their life. It's called technology.

I miss the wooden pylons.

59 to 1 is a great ratio.