Dan's Dilemma

[Loren]

Option 2 seems like a great next step, btw.

[aw614]

Option 2 is a good option you can still get a lot out of any of the Max performance tires and the rear sway bar. Hell I really couldn't complain using the htr ziii on the GTI the events I ran them on, of course I wasn't going to win, but I did midpack in m2 one event, and have done well at a few bmwcca, fcrc events, noisy lol

You could pinch the wider tire, you might notice uneven tire wear however.

[Jamie]

Option 2 seems like a great next step, btw.

Agree, especially if they're dual-purpose tires.

[Loren]

My wife's MX-5 has been on Conti DW for over 2 years now. She likes them because they're quiet, comfortable and give her confidence in the rain. I've had them in some torrential rain and also flogged them on mountain roads and found them to be fantastic tires! For autocross, they won't give you the level of grip of something like an RS-3, but Chris has proven that they're a pretty competent tire.

[dbeng]

Well it seems we have a winner!

Option 2 it is then. Conti Extreme DW in 205/45-17 and a sway bar upgrade. Totally different direction than I expected but it will be great fun to try it out. I will be able to get at least one more event out of my current tires but I will order the new tires in the next few days anyway to take advantage of the rebate they are offering if ordered before July 5th.

I found out during my research on the Rear sway bar that the stock Mazda 3 does have one, it's 20mm vs. 26mm on the Mazdaspeed3 so fairly soft. There are quite a few options out there for upgraded RSBs but the James Barone Racing (JBR) bar has consistently good reviews and has three adjustable settings. Even the softest setting is over double the stock stiffness - I'm sure I won't need the firmest setting, but will enjoy trying out the options.

Loren, I'm definitely interested in finding out about adjusting alignment at home, I hate taking my car to a shop for anything I can do myself. I have heard of the "string method" a few times over the years but have not looked into it in any detail.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
Dan

[nc4me]

Well it seems we have a winner!

Option 2 it is then. Conti Extreme DW in 205/45-17 and a sway bar upgrade. Totally different direction than I expected but it will be great fun to try it out. I will be able to get at least one more event out of my current tires but I will order the new tires in the next few days anyway to take advantage of the rebate they are offering if ordered before July 5th.

I found out during my research on the Rear sway bar that the stock Mazda 3 does have one, it's 20mm vs. 26mm on the Mazdaspeed3 so fairly soft. There are quite a few options out there for upgraded RSBs but the James Barone Racing (JBR) bar has consistently good reviews and has three adjustable settings. Even the softest setting is over double the stock stiffness - I'm sure I won't need the firmest setting, but will enjoy trying out the options.

Loren, I'm definitely interested in finding out about adjusting alignment at home, I hate taking my car to a shop for anything I can do myself. I have heard of the "string method" a few times over the years but have not looked into it in any detail.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
Dan

Good choice! I only suggested the 45 because my memory sucks and I thought in the original post you said 205/45/17 yoko AD08. The performance will be the same wether you get the 45 or 50 series conti's.

[Lava Speed 05]

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direc ... =17&cs=205

If you haven't ordered yet. Extra $75 rebate.

[Lava Speed 05]

just realized those are different...

[dbeng]

Thanks Matt,

Yeah, the DWS is all-season, the DW is the summer tire.

Dan.

[ViperTGB]

Well it seems we have a winner!

Option 2 it is then. Conti Extreme DW in 205/45-17 and a sway bar upgrade. Totally different direction than I expected but it will be great fun to try it out. I will be able to get at least one more event out of my current tires but I will order the new tires in the next few days anyway to take advantage of the rebate they are offering if ordered before July 5th.

I found out during my research on the Rear sway bar that the stock Mazda 3 does have one, it's 20mm vs. 26mm on the Mazdaspeed3 so fairly soft. There are quite a few options out there for upgraded RSBs but the James Barone Racing (JBR) bar has consistently good reviews and has three adjustable settings. Even the softest setting is over double the stock stiffness - I'm sure I won't need the firmest setting, but will enjoy trying out the options.

Loren, I'm definitely interested in finding out about adjusting alignment at home, I hate taking my car to a shop for anything I can do myself. I have heard of the "string method" a few times over the years but have not looked into it in any detail.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
Dan

I'm also running the JBR .125 rear sway bar on my MS3, it's a great product. Make sure you grease up the bushings very well when you install it, the brackets that come with it are not the greatest quality and are known to break. Regreasing the bushings about once a year should keep the brackets much happier. You may want to look into the CorkSport rear sway bar - provided the RSB is interchangable from the MS3 to the MZ3, which I *think* it is - because it comes with much higher quality brackets, is 2-way adjustable (essentially missing the "middle" setting from the JBR bar), and I think it is only $20 more. Also no matter which RSB you get, I would highly suggest tightening the nut that fastens the RSB to the endlinks about every 2-4 months because they have a tendency to loosen just enough to cause horrible clunking noises when you go over bumps.

EDIT: Just looked it up, the bar is interchangable - but you would need to swap out endlinks. Also the Corksport bar for the MZ3 isn't nearly as stiff as the Corksport MS3 bar.

A good way to compensate for the loss of stability from a stiffer RSB and 0 toe alignment would be to run the rears about 5 psi lower than the fronts. With the horrible weight distribution of the car, it will actually still look and feel like they are pumped up the same, if not more, than the fronts. I run 35F and 30R on my DD tires and I've noticed it's help bring back some of the stability that I had before I got my RSB and alignment.

[dbeng]

Trevor,

Great info. I noticed that JBR offer optional gusseted billet aluminum brackets and grade 8 hardware for their sway bar. $95 if ordered on its own or $80 if ordered with a swaybar. I thought it was overkill when researching yesterday but since you mentioned that the stock brackets are a known weak point maybe I should take advantage of the package deal and pick them up with the bar for peace of mind.

I will still come in under my original budget for the AD08 and have enough left over for a couple of autocross entries so it's all good

Thanks again,
Dan

[Loren]

Back when I started autocrossing in a Saturn, a beefed up rear swaybar would indeed turn stock mounts into pretzels. (our fix was to double up on the stock stamped steel mounts and weld them together) Remember, most stock parts are overengineered by 20-50%. You're going WAY beyond that with this rear bar.

$80 seems like a reasonable price for a ready-made solution.

[dbeng]

I'm also running the JBR .125 rear sway bar on my MS3, it's a great product. Make sure you grease up the bushings very well when you install it, the brackets that come with it are not the greatest quality and are known to break. Regreasing the bushings about once a year should keep the brackets much happier. You may want to look into the CorkSport rear sway bar - provided the RSB is interchangable from the MS3 to the MZ3, which I *think* it is - because it comes with much higher quality brackets, is 2-way adjustable (essentially missing the "middle" setting from the JBR bar), and I think it is only $20 more. Also no matter which RSB you get, I would highly suggest tightening the nut that fastens the RSB to the endlinks about every 2-4 months because they have a tendency to loosen just enough to cause horrible clunking noises when you go over bumps.

EDIT: Just looked it up, the bar is interchangable - but you would need to swap out endlinks. Also the Corksport bar for the MZ3 isn't nearly as stiff as the Corksport MS3 bar.

A good way to compensate for the loss of stability from a stiffer RSB and 0 toe alignment would be to run the rears about 5 psi lower than the fronts. With the horrible weight distribution of the car, it will actually still look and feel like they are pumped up the same, if not more, than the fronts. I run 35F and 30R on my DD tires and I've noticed it's help bring back some of the stability that I had before I got my RSB and alignment.

Trevor,
For some reason even though you clearly mentioned Corksport in your post l had a brain-fart and Googled Cobb Sport (doesn't exist) which led me to Cobb Tuning. Their website is horrible to navigate but the funny thing is they also offer a RSB for the 3 but only for the Mazdaspeed so I thought I was in the right place but couldn't find where you were referring to a specific bar for the MZ3!
Somehow it just registered with me that I was looking in the wrong place and sure enough I found the Corksport website and their two specific products for the MZ3 and MS3. I see what you mean about the better mounts as the Corksport bars come with the billet aluminum mount brackets as standard.
Did you mean to use the one specific to the MZ3, or the stiffer bar for the MS3?
The rates on their Mazda 3 bar are definitely softer but look pretty good. The lowest setting is almost double stock stiffness and the higher is just under triple stock stiffness. This is designed specifically for my model I guess to better complement the softer springs and stock front end. Their MS3 bar is much stiffer and more in-line with the JBR stiffness who offers a one size fits all bar.
Apparently Corksport's original RSB was a tubular blade type more like the JBR but they had a lot of failures with it. Their latest design is solid bar construction, bigger diameter than stock.
Price wise (with shipping) Corksport is right between the JBR price with stock brackets and the price with billet upgrade so it seems like a decent solution.
I haven't ordered anything yet, now I'm not sure which way is best.
Thanks again.
Dan.

[ViperTGB]

Just to put it in perspective, I'm running JBR .125 on the stiffest setting, and I still want more bar. Failure of the JBR bar is rare but I have read about it. I get the feeling it's mostly from improper installation (e.g. not greasing the bushings - the will cause a hadache down the road if you don't do it). Like I said, my bar has given me no trouble yet, and ive done about 30-35 events with it plus 20k miles of spirited driving.

I can't tell you what's best for you because I'm not in your shoes. The JBR bar has a +1 in the performance aspect. CS MZ3 bar will provide piece of mind with lower performance, and the CS MS3 bar can provide both, but may or may not need new endlinks or some innovative fitting (not 100% on the fitment for your car)

If you do happen to catch the autoX bug and want to become competitive in a higher level, I'd recommend a stiffer bar, if that's out of the question then it really comes down to personal preference. Mazda247.com and mazdaspeedforums.com (don't post on MSF if you get ofended easily - the community is ruthless) should have all the info you need if you just search around

EDIT: Regardless of which bar you choose, CS has downloadable install instructions for free. Use that if you have any doubts during install.

[Loren]

You pretty much can't put too much rear swaybar on the rear of a FWD car. Get the bigger bar.

[Solar]

Dan, here's a pic of my 03 Civic Si with a set of 225/45/17 Azeni's and a RSX rear swaybar, with poly bushings, this is what you want. Like Loren said go with the biggest RSB you can afford.

[dbeng]

Wow Brian, That's pretty intense

Was the car your daily driver? How did it feel on the street?

Dan

[Loren]

Dan, we just don't have a lot of hardcore FWD guys running with us right now. That's really not all that intense. It's 100% typical and normal for a hard-driven FWD car. Put sticky tires on your 3 and let me drive it. It would do that even with totally stock suspension. It will just do it a lot easier with a big rear swaybar.

If you're smooth, you won't even notice it. It's just a part of the body roll that's happening. The RSB will pull up the inside rear tire and that weight gets redistributed mostly to the opposite end of the car to give you more cornering grip and allow you to get on the throttle earlier.

You will LOVE the feeling!

You'll probably want to start with the bar on the middle or soft setting to get used to it. When you go full stiff, the car may have a tendency toward snap oversteer if you come into a corner REALLY hard and then lift. You actually WANT that in a FWD car. That's how you get enough weight transfer to the front to dig out of a turn effectively. You just have to train yourself to "brake first, then turn", and "never lift" in a turn. When you get really good, you can sometimes use a well-timed lift to help bring the back end around a tight turn. As soon as you get back on the throttle, weight will transfer to the rear and stop the oversteer.

On the street, unless you're driving like a complete moron, it simply makes the steering feel more responsive. It will make the ride slightly harsher on some roads because it's "coupling" the rear suspension and making bumps that might have been absorbed by one wheel transfer to the other side.

[aw614]

Yeah that looks about right with FWD lol, I think at the fast night event Mario told me my car was lifting a lot more than usual during the turn around. Usually my integra doesn't lift as much as my GTI. Its more planted but I guess the corner was a lot tighter than usual and the rear wheel lifted lol. Never even felt it while in the car!

Some roads like veterans with all that construction, with stiff rear springs and the rear sway bar, it does get annoying especially between erlich and hillsborough exits, but its liveable. You could always bring down the rear tire pressures if they are too high, Im lazy and haven't bothered lowering the rear pressures so its been amplified

The big rear bar really isn't that bad on the street, I think you would feel running toe out more so than having an oh shit moment with snap oversteer...