FAST Duel 2015! Feb 28 @ Brooksville

[Carracer]

Brian, I didn't say I was good at it!

I had to say something lol.

But how does "sandbagging" work on a Duel event ? Unless the practice runs are timed, how will anyone know how fast the other cars out there are ?

I think he is literally going to put sandbags in everyones cars and hope they don't notice. The real reason his wheel bearing was shot is because he tried to bring an extra 300 pounds of sand in his car for the sandbags. He already had 900 pounds of sand in the pickup.

[Loren]

But how does "sandbagging" work on a Duel event ? Unless the practice runs are timed, how will anyone else know how fast the other cars out there are running ?

Well, what Chris did a couple years ago was just LOST a bunch of practice rounds to lull people into thinking he wasn't a threat. I think he even lost his first competition round (on purpose, no doubt) to put himself in the loser bracket. Then... he cleaned up the loser bracket and DOMINATED the finals. Sneaky.

But, I like Phillip's idea better.

[Solar]

Well, what Chris did a couple years ago was just LOST a bunch of practice rounds to lull people into thinking he wasn't a threat. I think he even lost his first competition round (on purpose, no doubt) to put himself in the loser bracket. Then... he cleaned up the loser bracket and DOMINATED the finals. Sneaky.

That don't mean crap. It only works when maybe someone's watching; and even then, how many people can judge ? There's no sandbagging in the Duel; it's just balls out go baby, and don't hit a cone !

[Loren]

There's no sandbagging in the Duel

Idunno, man. I bet I could sneak a few 50# bags into the back of a Mazdaspeed 3 during the course walk or something. Nobody would notice.

Will be a little harder to slip them into my co-driver's trunk and get them out for my runs.

[nc4me]

But how does "sandbagging" work on a Duel event ? Unless the practice runs are timed, how will anyone else know how fast the other cars out there are running ?

Well, what Chris did a couple years ago was just LOST a bunch of practice rounds to lull people into thinking he wasn't a threat. I think he even lost his first competition round (on purpose, no doubt) to put himself in the loser bracket. Then... he cleaned up the loser bracket and DOMINATED the finals. Sneaky.

But, I like Phillip's idea better.

Actually I never lost a round! Here's a copy of the results: http://drivefast.org/wp/Results/2012/20 ... 9_Duel.pdf

And I never sandbagged either . Here is Andy Supernant's post (I beat him in the finals) about how things went down: "That was the most fun autocross I've ever done! Between running R-comps for the first time, meeting some great new people and finishing well, I had a blast! Chris and I went head to head in the warm-ups and I took him. So, going into the final run, my focus was on running clean and not killing myself with downed cones or a spin. Little did I know he had picked up significant speed since that warm-up run. I wasn't expecting to see him already on the final straight as I rounded the last turn! Great job Chris!"

And this was my response: "I used the practice for just that, practice. My 1st practice run I ran the whole thing in 1st gear and liked it and was really quick. The other two practice runs I went between 1st and 2nd gear and it was slower. You had me by the entire straight in practice and that probably mind f'd you in the final. I made the same mistake on my first run three years ago. I thought I had a fairly easy win going against Ed, since I usually beat him at the normal auto-x events and I went to conservative and he beat me. You underestimated your oppenent, something I will never do again. You should have figured there was a reason I made it that far and beat the other class champs, either I got faster or they got slower. Always assume your opponent got faster. It was a good final run though and congratulations on being first in your class and second overall. You beat a lot of fast people to earn that and you were running quick all day. I look forward to seeing how we do against each other at future auto-x events on the overall time sheet."

So, using only first gear at St. Pete was faster than shifting between first and second and after the practice runs were over I did that for all competition runs! I used what I learned in practice to make sure I was getting around the course as fast as possible! So, as you can see there was no sandbagging. I was just using practice to my full advantage and making sure I knew the fastest way for me to get around the course !

Here's a video of the R2 final between Andy and Jeff Girardello. You can see why it was a first gear only course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGfr9Yl ... e=youtu.be

[Loren]

Actually I never lost a round!

And I never sandbagged either .

I was just using practice to my full advantage and making sure I knew the fastest way for me to get around the course !

You're so good at sandbagging that you don't even realize you're doing it.

I'll have to try this "practice during the practice rounds" thing. There might be something to it.

[twistedwankel]

I think he is literally going to put sandbags in everyones cars and hope they don't notice. The real reason his wheel bearing was shot is because he tried to bring an extra 300 pounds of sand in his car for the sandbags. He already had 900 pounds of sand in the pickup.

I don't care who you are this guy's funny makes me cry in the middle of the day laughing.

[Omnislashx82]

Any suggestions as to how much gas I should have in the mazda 3 hatch? This will be the first time running a front wheel drive car for me, and this car specifically the first time I will be beating on it

[Professional_Slacker]

Any suggestions as to how much gas I should have in the mazda 3 hatch? This will be the first time running a front wheel drive car for me, and this car specifically the first time I will be beating on it

I usually run about a quarter tank, which is 3 gallons in my car. that seems to be MORE than enough for events with my fuel consumption rates.

[Loren]

You'll be doing a minimum of 8 runs. Somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 tank will get the job done.

A gallon of gas only weighs about 6 pounds. Carrying a half tank more than you need only adds up to about 30-36 pounds. Compared to the huge inconvenience of runnning out of fuel... I wouldn't sweat the weight, just show up with a half tank or more.

Some cars will fuel starve in long turns (like the two turn-arounds that are on this course) when the fuel level gets very low. If you don't know whether or not your car is going to do that, it's worth considering. Ben's Miata used to do that with less than 1/4 tank!

[Professional_Slacker]

You'll be doing a minimum of 8 runs. Somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 tank will get the job done.

A gallon of gas only weighs about 6 pounds. Carrying a half tank more than you need only adds up to about 30-36 pounds. Compared to the huge inconvenience of runnning out of fuel... I wouldn't sweat the weight, just show up with a half tank or more.

Some cars will fuel starve in long turns (like the two turn-arounds that are on this course) when the fuel level gets very low. If you don't know whether or not your car is going to do that, it's worth considering. Ben's Miata used to do that with less than 1/4 tank!

great point. it isn't an issue in the spyder, but not all cars are the same.

[Carracer]

I have never run with a co-driver so I'm still working out how much fuel I should have left when I show up. I'm thinking a little over a 1/3 tank should be good but I don't really know how many runs we could end up doing.
( I subtracted the amount of fuel I'll need to get to Brooksville already )

[Omnislashx82]

Thanks guys, I was more worried about funny weight transfer or something with front wheel drive. I don't know lol. I'm at a 1/4 tank and the odometer says 800miles...that has to be wrong

[Omnislashx82]

How far away are you Philip? I'd say shown up with at least half tank for 8 runs two drivers

[Professional_Slacker]

Thanks guys, I was more worried about funny weight transfer or something with front wheel drive. I don't know lol. I'm at a 1/4 tank and the odometer says 800miles...that has to be wrong

I don't know what your fuel capacity is or your consumption. but my spyder gets about 400miles to a 12 gallon fill. 800 seems awful high though.

[Carracer]

How far away are you Philip? I'd say shown up with at least half tank for 8 runs two drivers

I'm coming up from New Port Richey but I already subtracted that so I'll arrive with just over 1/3. I might just bring a Jerrycan...

I don't need much to get back home because there is a gas station not far from the airport.

[twistedwankel]

Any suggestions as to how much gas I should have in the mazda 3 hatch? This will be the first time running a front wheel drive car for me, and this car specifically the first time I will be beating on it

Hearsay:

I know this alien guy Keith who drives the pants off a NA Mini FWD and keeps meticulous records of every thing he does to it. Last time I asked he's running 50psi in the rear tires to get it to rotate (check the max psi stamped on your tires before doing this). For piece of mind have a full tank when you leave home. You can consider your first 3-4 runs a test n tune? Your car is obviously not setup yet so this should be a fun day for you. Relax, enjoy.

Next time you see a fast red mini at an event ask him for help in setting up your car. The discontinued Mazdaspeed 3 I test drove handled fantastically with low gas from the dealer BUT I wasn't pulling any serious G's.

[Loren]

Amateur-Tip (not to be confused with a Pro-Tip): This ain't the SCCA Solo Nationals. Who wins or loses this event will NOT come down to how light you made your fuel load.

A FULL tank of fuel for the typical modern car will carry about 12 gallons at a weight of about 70 pounds. And the typical modern car (other than the flyweight economy cars and sports cars... and they will have a smaller tank to go with their lighter weight) weighs at least 2800 pounds including the driver. That's less than 2.5% difference between running FULL and running EMPTY. If you run a half-tank, the difference is about 1% from running empty. And if you're quibbling over whether to run 1/4 or 1/2 tank... the difference is more like 0.5%!

You know what? None of us are that good! 0.5% of a 50-second autocross run = 0.25 seconds. Until you can consistently run class-winning times within .25 seconds of each other, it just doesn't matter.

Put some gas in the car. One less thing to worry about. Be happy.

[Omnislashx82]

Ok Loren, but if I lose to you I'm gonna blame it on that 0.5 percent lol. Doug I'm gonna have fun no matter what but I'm not going to be setting up the wifes car, hopefully I can get mine fixed soon

[Solar]

Any suggestions as to how much gas I should have in the mazda 3 hatch? This will be the first time running a front wheel drive car for me, and this car specifically the first time I will be beating on it

As most have already said, more than a ½ tank is plenty, the extra weigh from fuel is negligible, I use to fill my tank completely up until gas got over $3 a gallon.

Looking forward to tomorrow, got the car all packed up, extra dry clothes just encase, and added an extra can of Whoop Ass.