How to deal with class G?

[Dave-ROR]

It's difficult to hold a meeting during an autocross, but we might be able to pull it off during lunch or something. Or maybe after the event? Head over to Denny's for a sit-down?

I may or may not have a game that night, not 100% sure yet. At worse, we can quickly get together to plan for a date that works for all of us, which I figure will work best if we can't do it that night after the autox.

[Loren]

Rock on, Mr. Committee Chairman. 8)

[Dave-ROR]

Rock on, Mr. Committee Chairman. 8)

LOL that should be Bob, the source of the original complaint

[miazda man]

we can try to do something at the auto x

[Anonymous]

Last events results split up using 3 groups with HS by itself. While I think this method would be the most fair, and have the best competition, I don't think it really gives us the smaller run groups that we need. Class G goes from 24 to 18. And there are still 3 people that I couldn't figure out what car they drove. Anyone know those 3 unknowns?


OLD:
Class F - 'Production street tire > 3L' (11 people)
1 16 John Scott 02 BWM 330 Ci
2 3 Clinton Wilson 3 BMW M3 Vert
3 9 Charles Socci NA
4 32 Tom Stewart 05 Pontiac GTO
5 97 Timothy Jay 05 Infiniti G35
6 472 Bill Foster NA
7 2 Sean Wentzel NA
8 99 Mike Chawk 06 VW GTI
9 133 Jesse Switek 07 Saturn Sky
10 79 Larry Jay 05 Infiniti G35
11 1 Allen Tomczak 05 Infiniti G35

Class G - 'Production street tire < 3L' Times (24 People)
1 111 Nate Schirmer 05 Lotus Elise
2 555 Kenneth Gardner 94 Mazda Miata
3 149 Dave Balogh 06 Honda S2000
4 37 Steven Frank 94 Mazda Miata
5 73 Chuck Ray 07 Mazda RX8
6 65 Mark Jones 04 Mazda Mazdaspeed MX-5
7 19 bob Gardelle 91 Mazda Miata
8 2000 Bill Flowers Honda S2000
9 77 Carl Nyman 93 Mazda MX5
10 53 Michael Long 04 Ford Focus
11 61 Merian Burke 91 Mazda Miata
12 55 Nicholas Kriebel 02 Ford SVT Focus
13 54 Christina Edwards 05 Mazda RX8
14 222 Thomas Russo 06 Honda Civic SI
15 10 Mario Kikic 95 Mazda Miata
16 411 Jeremy Williams 06 Honda S2000
17 42 Steven Rush 03 Acura Rsx-S
18 20 Mike Kennedy 04 Mazda Miata
19 4 Rudy Kriebel 94 Mazda Miata
20 45 Travis Floyd 08 Pontiac G6
21 613 Andrew Baraban 2008 Scion tC
22 48 Tim Taylor 05 Dodge Neon
23 121 Kimberly Taylor 92 Mazda
24 27 Ed Courtemanche 99 Mazda Miata

NEW:
Unknown (3 people)
6 472 Bill Foster NA
7 2 Sean Wentzel NA
3 9 Charles Socci NA

SS,AS,BS,CS (11 people)
1 111 Nate Schirmer 05 Lotus Elise
3 149 Dave Balogh 06 Honda S2000
5 73 Chuck Ray 07 Mazda RX8
6 65 Mark Jones 04 Mazda Mazdaspeed MX-5
8 2000 Bill Flowers Honda S2000
2 3 Clinton Wilson 3 BMW M3 Vert
13 54 Christina Edwards 05 Mazda RX8
16 411 Jeremy Williams 06 Honda S2000
18 20 Mike Kennedy 04 Mazda Miata
9 133 Jesse Switek 07 Saturn Sky
24 27 Ed Courtemanche 99 Mazda Miata

DS,ES,FS,GS (18 people)
2 555 Kenneth Gardner 94 Mazda Miata
4 37 Steven Frank 94 Mazda Miata
7 19 bob Gardelle 91 Mazda Miata
1 16 John Scott 02 BWM 330 Ci
9 77 Carl Nyman 93 Mazda MX5
11 61 Merian Burke 91 Mazda Miata
12 55 Nicholas Kriebel 02 Ford SVT Focus
4 32 Tom Stewart 05 Pontiac GTO
15 10 Mario Kikic 95 Mazda Miata
5 97 Timothy Jay 05 Infiniti G35
17 42 Steven Rush 03 Acura Rsx-S
8 99 Mike Chawk 06 VW GTI
19 4 Rudy Kriebel 94 Mazda Miata
20 45 Travis Floyd 08 Pontiac G6
10 79 Larry Jay 05 Infiniti G35
22 48 Tim Taylor 05 Dodge Neon
23 121 Kimberly Taylor 92 Mazda
11 1 Allen Tomczak 05 Infiniti G35

HS (3 people)
10 53 Michael Long 04 Ford Focus
14 222 Thomas Russo 06 Honda Civic SI
21 613 Andrew Baraban 2008 Scion tC

[aparke]

Jeremy,

Charles Socci in class F was driving my Mazdaspeed 3.

[WAFlowers]

Maybe you need to go back and look at some of the 4-way split suggestions (such as Dave's).

[miazda man]

Jeremy


that last division of the two classes looks like it would work just fine as well as dave's four class split. Dave's refines it a little and it may make it easier to put run groups togather. What do you guys think

[Anonymous]

I think I figured it out. Due to Brian's excellent performance last weekend. I am now comfortable grouping HS with GS. Have fun with those supercharged Minis Brian.

Does anyone feel bad about putting CS cars up against SS cars? I am indifferent. A CS car is going to really have to fight to beat a SS car.

Last weekend's results...
OLD
Class F - 'Production street tire > 3L' Times
1T 85 Brian Meyers 07 Ford Mustang gt
2 3 Clinton Wilson 03 BMW M3
3 165 Shawn Meyers BMW M5
4 16 John Scott 02 BWM 330
5 24 Aaron Parke 07 Mazda Mazdaspeed3
6 2 Sean Wentzell 02 Lexus
7 55 Sean McRobert 98 Ford Mustang GT
8 179 Timothy Jay 05 Infiniti G35
9 79 Larry Jay 05 Infiniti G35
10 310 Stephen Woodbury 05 Ford Mustang Gt

Class G - 'Production street tire < 3L' Times
1T 1 Jeremy Damico 05 Honda S2000
2 73 Chuck Ray 07 Mazda
3 30 Brian Kollar 03 Honda Civic Si
4 5 Jack Neely 01 Honda S2000
5 2000 William Flowers 03 Honda S2000
6 19 bob Gardelle 91 Mazda Miata
7 113 Mark Lasota 05 Mazda Mx-5
8 84 Justin Brew 03 Honda S2000
9 76 Adam Parke 05 Mazda 3
10 72 Evan Blicker 04 Nissan Sentra Spec V
11 61 Merian Burke 91 Mazda Miata
12 27 Ed Courtemanche 99 Mazda Miata
13 20 Mike Kennedy 04 Mazda Miata
14 256 Jordan Young 91 Nissan 240sx
15 117 Scott Hutton 05 Chevy Aveo
16 21 Kimberly Taylor 95 Mazda Miata
17 52 Matt Rayfield 86 Toyota Mr2
18 15 Rich Remick 93 Mazda Miata

NEW
SS,AS,BS,CS (10 People)
1T 1 Jeremy Damico 05 Honda S2000
2 73 Chuck Ray 07 Mazda
2 3 Clinton Wilson 03 BMW M3
3 165 Shawn Meyers BMW M5
4 5 Jack Neely 01 Honda S2000
5 2000 William Flowers 03 Honda S2000
7 113 Mark Lasota 05 Mazda Mx-5
8 84 Justin Brew 03 Honda S2000
12 27 Ed Courtemanche 99 Mazda Miata
13 20 Mike Kennedy 04 Mazda Miata

DS,ES,FS (13 People)
1T 85 Brian Meyers 07 Ford Mustang gt
4 16 John Scott 02 BWM 330
5 24 Aaron Parke 07 Mazda
6 19 bob Gardelle 91 Mazda Miata
6 2 Sean Wentzell 02 Lexus
7 55 Sean McRobert 98 Ford Mustang GT
8 179 Timothy Jay 05 Infiniti G35
11 61 Merian Burke 91 Mazda Miata
9 79 Larry Jay 05 Infiniti G35
16 21 Kimberly Taylor 95 Mazda Miata
10 310 Stephen Woodbury 05 Ford Mustang Gt
17 52 Matt Rayfield 86 Toyota Mr2
18 15 Rich Remick 93 Mazda Miata

GS,HS (5 People)
3 30 Brian Kollar 03 Honda Civic Si
9 76 Adam Parke 05 Mazda 3
10 72 Evan Blicker 04 Nissan Sentra Spec V
14 256 Jordan Young 91 Nissan 240sx
15 117 Scott Hutton 05 Chevy Aveo

[Loren]

Since I know that there's no way we'll ever have truly "fair" classing with only 3 classes, I think this will work well-enough. As we discussed before, it has the benefit of being quick and easy to implement.

However, if having 25-30 cars in the "stock" classes is our norm, perhaps 4 classes would not be out of line? With 10 cars in class, half the class is relegated to "bottom-feeding" no matter what. With closer to 6 cars in class, even the underdog might have more of a fighting chance at a trophy every now and then.

Can we see a good 4-class breakout? Or does anyone thing that's a really Bad Idea?

[Anonymous]

What classes do you want to see together?
100 SS
99 AS
98 BS
97.9 CS
96.9 FS
96.5 ES
96.3 GS
96 DS
94 HS

Dave's example?
1. SS, AS, BS
2. CS, FS
3. ES, DS
4. GS, HS

[Loren]

Whatever works best.

[Anonymous]

lol, Dave's example has almost perfect distribution....

SS,AS,BS (7 People)
1T 1 Jeremy Damico 05 Honda S2000
2 73 Chuck Ray 07 Mazda RX-8
2 3 Clinton Wilson 03 BMW M3
3 165 Shawn Meyers BMW M5
4 5 Jack Neely 01 Honda S2000
5 2000 William Flowers 03 Honda S2000
8 84 Justin Brew 03 Honda S2000

CS,FS (8 People)
1T 85 Brian Meyers 07 Ford Mustang gt
7 113 Mark Lasota 05 Mazda Mx-5
7 55 Sean McRobert 98 Ford Mustang GT
8 179 Timothy Jay 05 Infiniti G35
12 27 Ed Courtemanche 99 Mazda Miata
13 20 Mike Kennedy 04 Mazda Miata
9 79 Larry Jay 05 Infiniti G35
10 310 Stephen Woodbury 05 Ford Mustang Gt

DS,ES (8 People)
4 16 John Scott 02 BWM 330
5 24 Aaron Parke 07 Mazda
6 19 bob Gardelle 91 Mazda Miata
6 2 Sean Wentzell 02 Lexus
11 61 Merian Burke 91 Mazda Miata
16 21 Kimberly Taylor 95 Mazda Miata
17 52 Matt Rayfield 86 Toyota Mr2
18 15 Rich Remick 93 Mazda Miata

GS,HS (5 People)
3 30 Brian Kollar 03 Honda Civic Si
9 76 Adam Parke 05 Mazda 3
10 72 Evan Blicker 04 Nissan Sentra Spec V
14 256 Jordan Young 91 Nissan 240sx
15 117 Scott Hutton 05 Chevy Aveo

[Loren]

I like that.

It would get my vote.

[TracAction]

So then with 4 stock classes would we keep our same simple rules for modified or something else? also what would we call the classes

A,B,C,D = stock

AM,BM,CM,DM = Mod classes

what about race tire classes and would we still have stock with race tire and modified race tire too for all classes?

[Loren]

I believe we touched on the topic of the other classes before. The race tire and mod classes aren't "broken", so we don't need to mess with them.

As for what to call our new class set... currently we have F and G, correct?

We could simply do F, G, H and I. I'm not fond of "I" as a class designator, though. It's too easy to confuse with a "1", and it has the implication of an "I class". So, we might want to use something other than "I".

We could do it bra-size style and call it "HH".

Or, being the slowest class, we could call it "S".

Other ideas?

I think it's much cleaner to have a single list of classes rather than "A this" and "A that". We've only got 11 classes, vs the SCCA's 52... we don't really need to double up our class letters.

[miazda man]

I vote for the 4 class set up. I think like loren says it kind of gives more people a shot at placing in there class. We could just not use I and go to J. i can see the i getting mistaken for a 1

[Anonymous]

I don't think giving people a better chance of placing in class is one of the goals of restructure. If so, we could just create 10 new classes, and people will have an even better shot.

One of my favorite things about FAST classing is the large classes.

I would vote for the 3-split because...
1. I want to see DS vs. FS.
2. The class sizes appear to be reduced enough to meet our goals.
3. Large classes are more fun.
4. We don't have to come up with a letter designation for that fourth class.

[TracAction]

I like the 4 class split because the clases sizes do change from event to event just to use examples from this thread (a large event and a smaller event). and over time will average better. I just think we can be more creative with class names.

Using Dave's Example for all cars.
1. SS, AS, BS
2. CS, FS
3. ES, DS
4. GS, HS


April Larger Event
1) 9 people
2) 6 people
3) 10 people
4) 12 people

June Smaller Event
1) 7 people
2) 8 people
3) 8 people
4) 5 people

[Loren]

Anybody remember who our official committee members are?

So far, it looks like we've got Jeremy outvoted with support for the 4-class split, and otherwise we're all in agreement with the proposed "method".

If there's nobody else that needs to chime in... let's put this puppy to bed.