You did a pretty good job. I spotted two things with that run though. First was the early turn in going around the back of the chicago box on the way out, that cost you a good few tenths. The second one was the same thing Chris did in his angry bird video. You should have stayed to the right of the first slalom cone on the way back, just like you did with the second slalom. By staying right it turns it into a one cone slalom (if there is such a thingrojna wrote:Had a awesome time in the wet, my best run :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs3EojCKgE8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It would be nice to run this course again sometime in the DRY![]()
2nd again
December 2011 - Post-Event thread
-
Chris Meier
- Notorious
- Drives: 2015 Mazda 6 Soul Red
- Location:
- Wesley Chapel, Fl
- Joined: September 2008
- Posts: 738
- First Name: Chris
- Last Name: Meier
- Favorite Car: 2015 Mazda 6 Soul Red
- Location: Wesley Chapel, Fl
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Chris Meier
2015 Mazda6 Soul Red 6AT- 18X8 Enkei Racing PF01's with 225/45/18 Continental Extreme DW tires and H&R Sport springs
2015 Mazda6 Soul Red 6AT- 18X8 Enkei Racing PF01's with 225/45/18 Continental Extreme DW tires and H&R Sport springs
-
Chris Meier
- Notorious
- Drives: 2015 Mazda 6 Soul Red
- Location:
- Wesley Chapel, Fl
- Joined: September 2008
- Posts: 738
- First Name: Chris
- Last Name: Meier
- Favorite Car: 2015 Mazda 6 Soul Red
- Location: Wesley Chapel, Fl
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Had a fun time. As always I wasn't able to piece together what I felt was an ideal run. I still can't believe I hit the cone at the first gat on my last run
.Oh well, there is always next month. So painfully far away
.
Chris Meier
2015 Mazda6 Soul Red 6AT- 18X8 Enkei Racing PF01's with 225/45/18 Continental Extreme DW tires and H&R Sport springs
2015 Mazda6 Soul Red 6AT- 18X8 Enkei Racing PF01's with 225/45/18 Continental Extreme DW tires and H&R Sport springs
-
Eva --
- Well-Known
- Drives: Doug's choice
-
- Joined: January 2010
- Posts: 302
- First Name: Eva
- Last Name: --
- Favorite Car: Doug's choice
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Thanks to everyone for another well run event.
Thanks to Doug A. for a lunch with some vegetable options
Thanks to Doug A. for a lunch with some vegetable options
2005 350Z, 2006 Z4M, 2015 BRZ...ZZZZooom!
-
Eva --
- Well-Known
- Drives: Doug's choice
-
- Joined: January 2010
- Posts: 302
- First Name: Eva
- Last Name: --
- Favorite Car: Doug's choice
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
I'm sure you guys have some ideas about some safety issues already.It ended up being a VERY fun course to drive, but Dave and I have already discussed some things that we'd want to change about it for improved safety. So, while we're all for using this basic idea, it's not 100% automatically safety approved. (but if an event chair were to send it to us as their first draft, we wouldn't change much!)
FWIW, I'm drawing up a design that is based on this one while it's fresh in my mind. (yes, I liked it, too!) My version will be stretched in a couple places so as to use the full length of the available space, take care of any safety concerns, try to eliminate some "clutter" and make it a little easier to navigate. Don't know when I'll use it, but I'll keep it in the cue.
While I was on station 4, I repeatedly saw workers from station 2 re-setting cones while cars were heading directly towards them in the first turn after the outgoing slalom. Maybe from my perspective it looked more dangerous than it was, and maybe it would be ok if it were dry, but just thought I would mention it.
2005 350Z, 2006 Z4M, 2015 BRZ...ZZZZooom!
-
Loren Williams
- Forum Admin
- Drives: A Mirage
- Location:
- Safety Harbor
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 13047
- First Name: Loren
- Last Name: Williams
- Favorite Car: A Mirage
- Location: Safety Harbor
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
There's not much we can do about that kind of problem other than discuss it here and talk about it at driver's meetings (which we already do). We're careful to put an experienced person on each station, that person should be curtailing the daredevil notions of their fellow workers as required.puncturina wrote:While I was on station 4, I repeatedly saw workers from station 2 re-setting cones while cars were heading directly towards them in the first turn after the outgoing slalom. Maybe from my perspective it looked more dangerous than it was, and maybe it would be ok if it were dry, but just thought I would mention it.
Maybe it was just perspective? Count seconds from the time the worker is headed to safety to the time the car gets there. Bear in mind that there is typically only a 25-30 seconds between cars. So, if it takes 15 seconds to get there and 10 seconds to properly set the cone(s), that only leaves 10-15 seconds. The worker needs to be out of the way early enough to not be a concern/distraction to the driver. An attentive driver might actually stop if they feel sufficiently distracted by getting too close to a worker in their path, I've done it before.
The cone I think you're talking about was 100-feet from the edge of the course, so unlike something like the typical slalom cone, the worker did have to run an additional 50-feet just to get to it. Could have just been a difficult station to work.
We just need Liz to train all of our course workers.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
-
Aaron --
- Well-Known
- Location:
- Brandon, FL
- Joined: September 2007
- Posts: 287
- First Name: Aaron
- Last Name: --
- Location: Brandon, FL
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Great event, guys! It was a really fun course - challenging, but had a nice flow if done properly (not that I could muster up that kind of run
)
-Aaron
'96 'Crap-Can' Racer
'00 GSR
'18 WRX
'96 'Crap-Can' Racer
'00 GSR
'18 WRX
-
Mike --
- Well-Known
- Drives: Cobra
- Joined: December 2010
- Posts: 213
- First Name: Mike
- Last Name: --
- Favorite Car: Cobra
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Even while wet, I really enjoyed this course. If no one is apposed, and the safetly issues are sorted out, I'd like to consider this layout next month.twistedwankel wrote:That would sure make it easier on the next Event Chair/Co Chair using the same design:) All ready safety approved too.snookwheel wrote:I agree! I would love a shot at that course in the dry! Had a great time today, even with all the rain. Thanks to all that made it happen. First time I've spun out at 20 mphblacksheep-1 wrote:That was a fun course, can we shelve that one for a future (drier) day?![]()
Scott
Somebody twist Joe & Mike's armsWhat's the weather forecast for Jan 21st?
And while the topic of the 2012 budget is up, I recommend an additional dolly for cone setup/teardown. Not sure if there would be room in the trailer but it would be a great time saver when in Brooksville.
Mike Dassatti
South Tampa
Everett Morrison AC Cobra
South Tampa
Everett Morrison AC Cobra
- Noob
- Joined: February 2010
- Posts: 25
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
I was probably the guy Eva was referring to. It looked worse than it was but was not totally safe. Returning cars would knock a cone down in a section of the return course near the center of the runway. I would run a third of the way across, stop and wait for the outbound car to pass, reset the cone just in time to run back before that same car passed me on the return leg. If I waited to set the cone after the outbound car passed I would not have been able to return to safety before it came around on the return leg.
Greg Riching
Lotus Elise
Lotus Elise
-
Loren Williams
- Forum Admin
- Drives: A Mirage
- Location:
- Safety Harbor
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 13047
- First Name: Loren
- Last Name: Williams
- Favorite Car: A Mirage
- Location: Safety Harbor
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Remember that workers are free to reposition their station, or spread the workers at their station out or ASK FOR MORE HELP* if their station warrants it. As long as you're keeping up, we generally assume that all is well. Worker stations are set out based on our best guess as to where they'll be needed (and be relatively safe). It's up to the corner captains to fine-tune that based on the needs of the course.
*It's very likely that on some courses there may be positions that could get away with just having one worker, and others that would benefit from having 3. Let us know if your station needs more folks or a "satellite worker" to handle a particular area, and we'll find a way to make it happen.
*It's very likely that on some courses there may be positions that could get away with just having one worker, and others that would benefit from having 3. Let us know if your station needs more folks or a "satellite worker" to handle a particular area, and we'll find a way to make it happen.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
-
Loren Williams
- Forum Admin
- Drives: A Mirage
- Location:
- Safety Harbor
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 13047
- First Name: Loren
- Last Name: Williams
- Favorite Car: A Mirage
- Location: Safety Harbor
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Mike, I'm gonna send you an email. Just finished my revision of this course last night. If you like it, it's yours. It's just different enough to be "different", but the actual driving line is VERY much the same.Rawkkrawler wrote:Even while wet, I really enjoyed this course. If no one is apposed, and the safetly issues are sorted out, I'd like to consider this layout next month.
And while the topic of the 2012 budget is up, I recommend an additional dolly for cone setup/teardown. Not sure if there would be room in the trailer but it would be a great time saver when in Brooksville.
And I'm gonna start a new topic for trailer maintenance.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
-
Charles --
- Notorious
- Drives: Nissan 240SX
-
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 722
- First Name: Charles
- Last Name: --
- Favorite Car: Nissan 240SX
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
blacksheep-1 wrote:That was a fun course, can we shelve that one for a future (drier) day?
+1 for this.....
2 of the offsets were pretty tough but if it was easy I guess it wouldn't be autoX.
Thanks to the event chairs and the poor course workers in run group 2-3 that had to reset the 38578349573 cones we were all sliding into. I tried to apologize to Chris on my way by during my 2nd run for driving through a cone wall for the 2nd time in a row
-
Rick Brillhart
- Well-Known
- Drives: miata
- Joined: November 2011
- Posts: 156
- First Name: Rick
- Last Name: Brillhart
- Favorite Car: miata
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Thanks guys!
The course was great! I had a blast!
Thanks Loren for the multiple help sessions.
Now if I can just stop being a slug.
The course was great! I had a blast!
Thanks Loren for the multiple help sessions.
Now if I can just stop being a slug.
Cones fear me... The timing lights, they just laugh.
-
Chuck --
- Well-Known
- Drives: Ford Focus ST
- Location:
- Land O Lakes, Florida
- Joined: November 2007
- Posts: 157
- First Name: Chuck
- Last Name: --
- Favorite Car: Ford Focus ST
- Location: Land O Lakes, Florida
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Has FAST ever put on a bad event? That speaks volumes on its own. Thank you very much to all the people who make it happen. I'm tempted to name names, but I'm too afraid I'll forget somebody!
Right on, Eric! It's good fun competition. We are 1 and 1. Hopefully, I won't miss any events, and it will be a good fight for the M1 championship.
I officially regret my disappointment at being in the first run group. It hurt us two months ago. It helped us this past Saturday. It's like a box of chocolates.
If anyone designing future courses is listening, there is one element I haven't seen in a while. I'd like a super high speed section that ends into a threshold braking area, like a tight, 90 degree turn maybe.
Right on, Eric! It's good fun competition. We are 1 and 1. Hopefully, I won't miss any events, and it will be a good fight for the M1 championship.
I officially regret my disappointment at being in the first run group. It hurt us two months ago. It helped us this past Saturday. It's like a box of chocolates.
If anyone designing future courses is listening, there is one element I haven't seen in a while. I'd like a super high speed section that ends into a threshold braking area, like a tight, 90 degree turn maybe.
Chuck Ray
Class S3 Silver Ford Focus ST
Class S3 Silver Ford Focus ST
-
Loren Williams
- Forum Admin
- Drives: A Mirage
- Location:
- Safety Harbor
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 13047
- First Name: Loren
- Last Name: Williams
- Favorite Car: A Mirage
- Location: Safety Harbor
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
You haven't seen that for several reasons:Rosko wrote:If anyone designing future courses is listening, there is one element I haven't seen in a while. I'd like a super high speed section that ends into a threshold braking area, like a tight, 90 degree turn maybe.
1. "super high speed" doesn't fit the definition of autocross, nor our insurance requirement to keep speeds below 60mph.
2. It's generally considered poor design. Have a read.
3. Just like we try to avoid "dragstrip starts" because it's hard on clutches, we avoid those high speed 50-20 braking zones because they are a recipe for flat-spotted tires. We're about fun... flat spots aren't fun!
But, even on this course, there were several areas that required hard braking, and if you weren't "threshold braking" relatively late (but not too late), you were leaving time out there!
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
-
Loren Williams
- Forum Admin
- Drives: A Mirage
- Location:
- Safety Harbor
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 13047
- First Name: Loren
- Last Name: Williams
- Favorite Car: A Mirage
- Location: Safety Harbor
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Anytime, Rick! You need to work on getting the "racing line" into your head and quit trying to make everything a discrete straight or turn. Blend it all together and make it flow! It's a zen thing.rab wrote:Thanks Loren for the multiple help sessions.![]()
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
-
John Evans
- Notorious
- Drives: RIP Li'l Stinker
-
- Joined: December 2009
- Posts: 630
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Evans
- Favorite Car: RIP Li'l Stinker
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
I struggle with this.Loren wrote:quit trying to make everything a discrete straight or turn. Blend it all together and make it flow! It's a zen thing.
-
Eric Gwatney
- Notorious
- Drives: 00 Suburban
- Location:
- Largo, FL
- Joined: June 2008
- Posts: 1252
- First Name: Eric
- Last Name: Gwatney
- Favorite Car: 00 Suburban
- Location: Largo, FL
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
You'll get to miss at least one, I already know I'll miss the March event as I'll be at the 12hrs of Sebring! I do hope it comes down the even in July though!Rosko wrote:Right on, Eric! It's good fun competition. We are 1 and 1. Hopefully, I won't miss any events, and it will be a good fight for the M1 championship.
Eric Gwatney
Formerly - 1996 LT-1 Corvette - #67 - M1
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague desire for something salty..." - Peter Egan
http://www.facebook.com/Shakedown067
http://www.instagram.com/Shakedown067
Formerly - 1996 LT-1 Corvette - #67 - M1
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague desire for something salty..." - Peter Egan
http://www.facebook.com/Shakedown067
http://www.instagram.com/Shakedown067
-
Chuck --
- Well-Known
- Drives: Ford Focus ST
- Location:
- Land O Lakes, Florida
- Joined: November 2007
- Posts: 157
- First Name: Chuck
- Last Name: --
- Favorite Car: Ford Focus ST
- Location: Land O Lakes, Florida
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Understood, but when I said super high speed, I meant super high speed for an autocross, which is, yes, around 60mph.Loren wrote:You haven't seen that for several reasons:Rosko wrote:If anyone designing future courses is listening, there is one element I haven't seen in a while. I'd like a super high speed section that ends into a threshold braking area, like a tight, 90 degree turn maybe.
1. "super high speed" doesn't fit the definition of autocross, nor our insurance requirement to keep speeds below 60mph.
2. It's generally considered poor design. Have a read.
3. Just like we try to avoid "dragstrip starts" because it's hard on clutches, we avoid those high speed 50-20 braking zones because they are a recipe for flat-spotted tires. We're about fun... flat spots aren't fun!
But, even on this course, there were several areas that required hard braking, and if you weren't "threshold braking" relatively late (but not too late), you were leaving time out there!
I know that the start of this last course was designed to prevent that unwanted drag strip launch, but from what I heard it was not well liked. I saw the starter fix that first cone countless times. IMHO, it was just a bit too tight. In the interest of full disclosure, I never hit it. I agree with the intent. I like saving my rear tires, but when so many drivers hit the first cone, it just seems like something that might deserve a second look if this is the way starts will be handled in the future. On the flip side, many drivers also hit that cone in the Chicago Box, but that doesn't mean we should change it. I see both sides.
Yeh, there was one fairly hard- braking area approaching the diagonal slalom on the way back.
Okay, I'll take what I get and be happy. Shutting up now.
Chuck Ray
Class S3 Silver Ford Focus ST
Class S3 Silver Ford Focus ST
-
Loren Williams
- Forum Admin
- Drives: A Mirage
- Location:
- Safety Harbor
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 13047
- First Name: Loren
- Last Name: Williams
- Favorite Car: A Mirage
- Location: Safety Harbor
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
Keep in mind that you don't have a "super-fast" car, so YOU shouldn't be going 60 mph. Ideally, 60 (maaaybe 65ish) is the top speed we should see for the FASTEST cars on race tires. That means 45-50 for the rest of us. In other words, this last course WAS about as super-fast as we can allow! (I know I hit well over 50 in one of the slowest cars out there... 'nuff said)Rosko wrote:Understood, but when I said super high speed, I meant super high speed for an autocross, which is, yes, around 60mph.
I suggested, but did not demand, that cone be omitted. I agree, the only thing that cone caused was unneccessary cone penalties and more work for the starter. Everybody lined up and blasted straight past it. We'll catch more stuff like that with our new course review process. (and be a little more adamant about it)I know that the start of this last course was designed to prevent that unwanted drag strip launch, but from what I heard it was not well liked.
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
The "Push Harder, Suck Less" philosophy explained:
Push Harder - Drive as close to the limit of your tires as possible.
Suck Less - Drive something resembling a proper racing line.
-
Howard --
- Well-Known
- Drives: 1979 Legrand
-
- Location:
- Clearwater
- Joined: December 2006
- Posts: 298
- First Name: Howard
- Last Name: --
- Favorite Car: 1979 Legrand
- Location: Clearwater
Re: December 2011 - Post-Event thread
The SCCA/insurance guideline for speeds of 60 ish is for cars in the stock/street prepared/street tire classes. It is understood that prepared and mod cars will go faster. I would estimate that in the wet I was mid 60s at the end of each of the slaloms. I would imagine that in the dry I would be mid 70's. I believe that is an acceptable range for AM/BM/EM cars (by SCCA classing) This has been discussed many times in various SCCA venues. I know we do our own classing, but the style and safety of the events are similar. Al long as we are following the right safety guidelines there shouldn't be a problem. We will have to start being more careful about some of the areas of concrete that are breaking up. We may want to find out if we would be allowed to do some patching of the worst areas. The occasional application of quickcrete to prevent a major hole in the concrete would not be a bad idea.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 4 guests
