Re: March 18 @ SPC - The "After School" Autocross

[Loren]

...

Some good stuff, let's discuss/resolve...

Driving after working. This is just a simple matter of me absolutely not paying attention to how it was previously done. It matters not to me whether I work before or after I run. (When I was a newb, I liked to work first so that I could WATCH what the fast guys were doing in critical areas before I drove) Anyway... y'all know me, sometimes little details like that get by me. My logic for Work-before-Run was simple: If the next heat's drivers are on course and know that they run next, we don't have to track them down!

Easy enough to flip that, though. Doesn't bother me any. Consider it done.

Inexperienced tech: That was a strange situation... rather unique, I'd say. The two guys who showed up were indeed "old school" SunRiders Autocross guys who used to run with us regularly 6 years ago. VERY enthusiastic guys. They showed up, said "we're ready to do tech", expressed their experience and Dave/Ron sent them on their way. They pretty well had their "system" under way before we had any idea what was going on. By then, it wasn't really worth trying to "fix it". Just run with it. No harm, no foul. Glad to have Ted and Mike back! Their enthusiasm is contagious and they're a lot of fun to have around.

I don't think we want to go back to doing "drive-through" tech, though. And I think Ron talked to them about it to be sure that anyone who might have been missed got teched this time.

Corner captains... not sure the solution here. Our club is rather unique in that we at least TRY to put an experienced person on each corner. I can only assume that a driver who doesn't claim to be a novice and who's name has appeared in our results enough times for me to recognize it is experienced enough to know the drill. This time, we had something like 30 novices signed up. They damn near had the experienced people outnumbered! And plugging experienced people into the critical timing/start/grid/safety positions... some of the less-experienced, but still "been around" folks got tagged as corner captains.

Not sure I have a solution to that one. How can you attend 4+ FAST autocrosses, listen to the typical driver's meeting where the whole worker process is explained every time, work a corner right there WITH experienced people for all those events and NOT understand how to do the job? This ain't rocket science. All I can say is: PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE!

Now for MY personal gripe:

It was brought to my attention that some of the folks who were camped out inside the gate watching our event had a toddler with them, and that at least one point in time, that child almost stepped out into my active grid... 20 feet from my starting line. This is absolutely and completely NOT ACCEPTABLE.

No pets, no children under 16. I can almost tolerate pets as long as you don't complain when I run over your dog. But, I can't be so complacent about your kid, and the first question our insurance company would ask would be why did the FAST event organizers allow this child to be present at their event??? Not a question we want to ever have to answer.

This is a SERIOUS ISSUE. If anyone knows who this was, please talk to them and ask tell them to leave their children at home for their own safety. We'll be watching closer in the future.

[Gerry]

I loved the course. This has been my favorite course at SPC so far, but I'm still a noob so what do I know. I definitely had a lot of fun with it and 6 runs felt good!

My only bit of constructive criticism: we need to make a STRICT rule for everyone to leave the timing crew alone. Assign one person to talk to us and that's it. It's hard to hear people on the radio when we've got trash talking, whining, and flirting going on in the timing trailer. Half the confusion can be avoided if we can just be left alone and remain antisocial. LOL!

As for timing equipment and software issues, I've taken the equipment home and will be testing it to its limits. My goal is to figure out how to recreate the weird problem we had in the first run group. At first glance, I think it's an issue with the software, because the timing hardware DEFINITELY reported the times correctly, and we still have those times saved. Still, it's worth finding out exactly what kind of problems we can expect, and thus avoid.

[Loren]

Half the confusion can be avoided if we can just be left alone and remain antisocial. LOL!

Be grumpy. Simply tell them to go away, because you're busy trying to keep up with timing/fix timing/control the urge to kill them.

As for timing equipment and software issues, I've taken the equipment home and will be testing it to its limits. My goal is to figure out how to recreate the weird problem we had in the first run group. At first glance, I think it's an issue with the software, because the timing hardware DEFINITELY reported the times correctly, and we still have those times saved. Still, it's worth finding out exactly what kind of problems we can expect, and thus avoid.

I don't have the software here, but I was thinking about it a while ago and I think I've seen it before. It just usually gets caught within a run or two. I think it was simply an extra "blank" time got inserted somehow and shifted things. The solution would have been to STOP, delete the offending entry, manually adjust the one or two runs that were assigned to the wrong person, and then restart.

In a way this sort of was your fault. Whoever was running the computer should have noticed that the times weren't being assigned to the correct car pretty quickly. Chalk it up to inexperience. When you've been doing it for a while, you know where to look and what to expect to see there... and when something is "different", it jumps out at you.

[Gerry]

Half the confusion can be avoided if we can just be left alone and remain antisocial. LOL!

Be grumpy. Simply tell them to go away, because you're busy trying to keep up with timing/fix timing/control the urge to kill them.

As for timing equipment and software issues, I've taken the equipment home and will be testing it to its limits. My goal is to figure out how to recreate the weird problem we had in the first run group. At first glance, I think it's an issue with the software, because the timing hardware DEFINITELY reported the times correctly, and we still have those times saved. Still, it's worth finding out exactly what kind of problems we can expect, and thus avoid.

I don't have the software here, but I was thinking about it a while ago and I think I've seen it before. It just usually gets caught within a run or two. I think it was simply an extra "blank" time got inserted somehow and shifted things. The solution would have been to STOP, delete the offending entry, manually adjust the one or two runs that were assigned to the wrong person, and then restart.

In a way this sort of was your fault. Whoever was running the computer should have noticed that the times weren't being assigned to the correct car pretty quickly. Chalk it up to inexperience. When you've been doing it for a while, you know where to look and what to expect to see there... and when something is "different", it jumps out at you.

^^ That's not what happened. Greg and I were making sure the correct cars were getting the correct times. We were on top of that. All was fine until the last 2 or 3 cars went through, then two entire columns were shifted down: the run times and the color of the car. Something went wrong beyond what you described. All the times are in there, we just need to re-align those columns and it should be fine.

[Loren]

^^ That's not what happened. Greg and I were making sure the correct cars were getting the correct times. We were on top of that. All was fine until the last 2 or 3 cars went through, then two entire columns were shifted down: the run times and the color of the car. Something went wrong beyond what you described. All the times are in there, we just need to re-align those columns and it should be fine.

Gotcha. I stand corrected. Sounds like a genuine glitch!

Unfortunately, the program doesn't give us access to the raw data, so Ron is having to manipulate the HTML report output. Sucks. There used to be TXT and CSV export options, but they must have done away with them at some point.

Oh well, we'll get it sorted. And since nothing like that has ever happened before, let's just hope that it doesn't happen again!

[Gerry]

Well the idea is to intentionally make it happen again so we can figure out why, then just avoid the situation. Well, that's the goal

[Loren]

Good luck with that. Sounds like a fluke... but, it IS software, so in theory, any error should be repeatable.

[puncturina]

Just my two cents here. Confirming Gerry's observation about the late-occurring glitch -- I wrote down Doug's and my times after each run, and all was well until the final run. When I went back to get my time for my last run, I could see that all the prior times for the whole run group had gone crazy.

Question -- when will we get a new timing display? I think it will avoid a lot of congestion and talking around the trailer if people can see their times as they drive by the trailer. And for all the reruns, it will be obvious if there are 00s on the display. Seems like there was some additional effort spent on managing reruns because drivers did not know they had reruns until after they were already parked in the grid.

Other than that, thanks to all for another great event. I had three friends come and visit. One of them already races and might sign up for future events, and another had a blast just riding along. Thanks to all.

[blacksheep-1]

All computers must die!!

[garage west]

We had one extra person in the trailer

[rojeho]

You're killing me.

In case someone might not be aware, John's mind cruises the gutter

[Loren]

Question -- when will we get a new timing display?

Soon. We really should have ordered it before this event... but the most likely suspects to handle that (me and Ron) were kinda busy with the school prep. It's on my agenda.

[twistedwankel]

Just my two cents here. Confirming Gerry's observation about the late-occurring glitch -- I wrote down Doug's and my times after each run, and all was well until the final run. When I went back to get my time for my last run, I could see that all the prior times for the whole run group had gone crazy.

Another observation from Grid. #3 Corvette initially they had no driver listed for on the computer (it was one of the tech guys). Then I was informed (via Chris) he was showing 3 completed runs to everyone else's two (granted a rerun which was apparently not needed) so I actually held him out of one rotation to even things up. #3 never left out of sync again as was followed by his buddy in M3 bmw right after the dual driven cars with a zillion reruns each it seemed = especially Eva. Mysteriously as #3 was about to launch on his 6th run he was waved off course saying he had all ready completed his 6th run. THAT was just not possible and very likely what caused the later issues? He wasn't the least concerned so I let it go. I concur those two guys are great fun and was impressed with their tech which even included a working seatbelt check which I've never seen done before.

I wasn't in the trailer. I know we had a good number of reruns for whatever reasons. Certainly isn't the first time and won't be the last. It happens no matter where I go for whatever reasons? Wind, sun, rain, earthquakes, Eva's electro static acupuncture charge?

I prefer organic computers BUT when HAL works right he sure save alot of time. I do enjoy seeing the results posted alot of times the same evening

[Greg]

Don't feel bad Gerry, I was there also.

This is the 6th time I've worked timing, I can assure you that Gerry and me did everything in our power to keep everything on track.

I'm pretty sure the bad batteries in the timing lights along with a combination of other things are what may have fueled the problem/error. I have never seen so many cars not trip the starter.
* Cars were still on run 4 while others were finishing.
* Car number 3 (vet) had no registration info matching his number.
* Since people would not see the (RRN) next to their names (which was nonexistent because of a non-trip) they would come up to us asking why they don’t have times and "do I get a RRN?" x8
* Since there were so many novices working the course, I had to run out of the trailer multiple times to help people with radios, flags, wristbands or other things while dealing with all the timing issues, sorry for leaving you hanging a few time Gerry.
Like I told Ron when I left the trailer, something unusual happened for sure. However, the more I think of it the more I believe that with all the hardware and distractions, it just as likely that may have been human error on my part just as much as it could have been a software glitch. Personally, I think it may have been an extra line or “dummy times” that we may have put in during the battery switch and light swap tests that may have caused the problem.


Sorry for the mix up guys (and gals).

[Greg]

Just my two cents here. Confirming Gerry's observation about the late-occurring glitch -- I wrote down Doug's and my times after each run, and all was well until the final run. When I went back to get my time for my last run, I could see that all the prior times for the whole run group had gone crazy.

Another observation from Grid. #3 Corvette initially they had no driver listed for on the computer (it was one of the tech guys). Then I was informed (via Chris) he was showing 3 completed runs to everyone else's two (granted a rerun which was apparently not needed) so I actually held him out of one rotation to even things up. #3 never left out of sync again as was followed by his buddy in M3 bmw right after the dual driven cars with a zillion reruns each it seemed = especially Eva. Mysteriously as #3 was about to launch on his 6th run he was waved off course saying he had all ready completed his 6th run. THAT was just not possible and very likely what caused the later issues? He wasn't the least concerned so I let it go. I concur those two guys are great fun and was impressed with their tech which even included a working seatbelt check which I've never seen done before.

I wasn't in the trailer. I know we had a good number of reruns for whatever reasons. Certainly isn't the first time and won't be the last. It happens no matter where I go for whatever reasons? Wind, sun, rain, earthquakes, Eva's electro static acupuncture charge?

I prefer organic computers BUT when HAL works right he sure save alot of time. I do enjoy seeing the results posted alot of times the same evening

As far as the Vet goes, I made sure Gerry double and triple checked that he had 6 Times runs for sure. Gerry assured me he did, so we made the call. The computer error may have had something to do with this, but we had no idea at the time. If we end up in the wrong, I truly am sorry.

[Gerry]

^^ The computer had him registered as number "03" but he had "3" on the car, which was the issue. The software is too stupid to realize that they're the same number. We had the starter hold the car as we double and triple checked his times - he did in fact have 6 actual timed runs. They were all consistently similar times, too (we checked for an outlier and really did try to give him another run, but couldn't). What may have happened is that maybe someone mistakenly communicated a rerun to him, when in fact the previous run DID count. Not out of the question since things were confusing and hectic in the morning. But like I said, he definitely did have 6 timed runs.

[twistedwankel]

Not having an outside time readout forced every single driver to go to the monitor to try and figure out their times. Many people have trouble figuring out what that says, especially which column indicates how many cones they hit if any.

It had to be a real zoo in the trailer due to that.

Mother Nature rained on the readout. Lets all blame her. I suggested having a Timing Girl in a bikini walk around with a board over her head like they do in WWF and boxing. One of those roadside people will dance and play air guitar too?

That would take my mind off bad driving. Don't know if the ladies would like a fireman to display their times?

[twistedwankel]

[quote="Gerry"]^^ The computer had him registered as number "03" but he had "3" on the car, which was the issue. The software is too stupid to realize that they're the same number. [quote]

I just love it when you call a computer "stupid"

NOBODY is blaming anyone for anything here. Shit happens. Don't worry Be happy ... like the song says.

[Greg]

Mother Nature rained on the readout. Lets all blame her. I suggested having a Timing Girl in a bikini walk around with a board over her head like they do in WWF and boxing. One of those roadside people will dance and play air guitar too?

Put it in the budget Steve.

[puncturina]

"...Eva's electro static acupuncture charge"

Yeah, my electro charge earned me more reruns than I thought possible. Three (or four?) runs to register my first time, then another for a downed cone. Ya'd think I would have had amazing times for all the extra practice that I got, but ... NOT!