Da Groj

Loren wrote: look closely at this course and what will be the optimal line through it. Then, do your best to fight your instincts that are going to try to make you drive it differently.

So I understand if you don't answer this but.... as a noob is the main decision which way to tackle the slaloms or is there more to it than that?

Dan.

dbeng wrote:So I understand if you don't answer this but.... as a noob is the main decision which way to tackle the slaloms or is there more to it than that?

That's one issue. I'm not sure how much it will matter on this course. Depends on exactly how we set it up, which will depend to some degree on how rushed I am and what kind of mood I'm in at that time.

Really, a lot of it is setup-dependent. Due to the scale of the map, cones are represented as the equivalent of about 4 feet wide, so the course map is never really "precise". When you walk the course (be sure to take the guided novice walk), look for places that might allow you to turn less and carry more speed. Sometimes those places aren't obvious. Sometimes they are. Sometimes they're easy to drive. Sometimes they require confidence, precision and looking way ahead to "thread the needle".

Perks of reading the forum...

Things that are likely to happen to THIS course at setup: There will be a smooth single-arc line through the turn-around (wide enough to squeak a G8 through... just). It won't be easy to spot, and getting it wrong might be painful, but it will be there. I might play with the final slalom to make the "hard" entry pay dividends on the exit. There's not much you can do with a 3-cone slalom, but I'll probably play with it if I have time. The rest of the course should pretty much be as shown on the map, which is not to say it's not a little tricky... but it's all obvious on the map if you look at it.

And everything I just told you might be a lie. You really need to walk the course with a critical eye to be sure.

shakedown067 wrote:

Loren wrote:That was a big hint, btw... look closely at this course and what will be the optimal line through it. Then, do your best to fight your instincts that are going to try to make you drive it differently.

Oh I see what you did there. Hey Doug, want a co-driver for that new vette of yours?

Eric,
It is highly unlikely I'll find some 200 race tires in my sizes before Jan 1st for the Vette and the F-Stone tires having run two events are beyond crap now to the point of oleo runflats. If I don't get some you are certainly welcome to co-drive the RX8 that is set up "perfectly" with oversize RS3 tires, alignment, shocks and rims. Watch to see which car I sign up. I'll be there for the afternoon session for sure. You can sign up as 119 or 61 or 91 or even run any class you want. At this point I'll run S2 #19 in the afternoon session. It is a struggle to beat anyone in the top 6 positions there. I doubt Chris will beat me again by .001 sec in OA times.

I'll certainly let you know when I get decent tires and we'll give them a good go. The car is super awesome the tires are just plain old and dry rotted.

Doug

BrilloHeadBen wrote:I might have to bring out the "Noob Taxi" and do some instructional/fun runs. It's gonna be another great FAST event!

noob taxi lolol Let's see if i get nauseous again as a passenger...

Loren, that turn around...oh boy...

Would anyone volunteer to draw a map with the correct racing arcs? I'm very visual and although I go on the course walks, the verbal explanations aren't sticking. It's like I need some worksheets of courses and I'll draw the lines, and then turn them in to get graded with the correct ones lol That would soo help me! Next FAST school classroom idea? If you want to get really detailed, draw symbols for braking, accelerating, sliding, wheel release, shift weight....actually, I used to ice dance and this is how we'd learn a dance pattern.We knew the pattern, the counts, when to change edges, direction, etc. It's all so related.


I need a heads up display like on Forza with the driving lines! I'm actually buying a PS4 soon so I can play Gran Turismo to get some simulation time in. I actually started doing proximity testing of my tires on the reflectors in the road when i come to and from work (instructor suggestion). I try to drive with my tire in between them which has hardly any room for error and doing a slalom on just one tire to understand my handling better. And this is the road my house is on and not a very busy one...i'm a safe driver

That is an interesting map, seems like a lot of dummy cones.

PurpleCatG356MT wrote:
noob taxi lolol Let's see if i get nauseous again as a passenger...

Loren, that turn around...oh boy...

Would anyone volunteer to draw a map with the correct racing arcs? I'm very visual and although I go on the course walks, the verbal explanations aren't sticking. It's like I need some worksheets of courses and I'll draw the lines, and then turn them in to get graded with the correct ones lol That would soo help me! Next FAST school classroom idea? If you want to get really detailed, draw symbols for braking, accelerating, sliding, wheel release, shift weight....actually, I used to ice dance and this is how we'd learn a dance pattern.We knew the pattern, the counts, when to change edges, direction, etc. It's all so related.


I need a heads up display like on Forza with the driving lines! I'm actually buying a PS4 soon so I can play Gran Turismo to get some simulation time in. I actually started doing proximity testing of my tires on the reflectors in the road when i come to and from work (instructor suggestion). I try to drive with my tire in between them which has hardly any room for error and doing a slalom on just one tire to understand my handling better. And this is the road my house is on and not a very busy one...i'm a safe driver

Gran Turismo isn't on the PS4 yet ( hasn't been officially announced either ). Right now it's a PS3 game.

What you're talking about would be more useful for a race track. (and if you search, you can find turn-by-turn directions for how to drive just about any known track... what gear to be in, where to turn-in, where to get on the throttle, etc)

For autocross, every course is different, and even though we take the time to draw a map and try very hard to stick to it... as mentioned above, the map is not precise, and there will be RELEVANT variation in how the course is set up.

A big part of autocross is learning to read the course on the fly and adapt to conditions. You don't need to be trying to memorize the course. You need to be learning to SEE the course and FEEL what the car is doing. Even if you could choreograph and memorize every step you're going to take to get around a course... the slightest little error would throw you off, and you'd be screwed. To be fast, you need to drive on the edge. Driving on the edge means that you WILL make little mistakes here and there. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, ever does a perfect autocross run. Even the best autocrossers come back from their fastest run saying "there's more out there" because there's always somewhere that you made a little mistake, or didn't push it hard enough.

Don't expect it to happen overnight. It takes time. To relate to your analogy... how good of a figure skater would you be if you got 3 minutes of practice time once every month? Think about it.

Practicing basic "placement" exercises on the street is a good thing. Playing realistic video games is also good. Beyond that... "seat time, seat time, seat time". (and ride-alongs!)

See if this helps. It's the sort of thing you should be looking for. With 4-feet of "wiggle room" on how the course is EXACTLY set up, who knows what it's really going to look like, but...
Figure skaters... ought to understand "conservation of momentum", no?

Not that different from the turn-around on the last course, just with the "visually tight" part on the entry this month vs. on the exit last time. "Visually tight", not actually tight.

Are you seeing it yet?

Cat (and others) -- don't study the map too hard, simply because it's certain to change during setup...might only be a little because of the cone "scale", or it might be a lot as Loren and safety make adjustments. So learning it exactly from the map won't help.

Anyone in the afternoon session (or anyone who can hang around into the afternoon a bit) is welcome to join me for an extra walk, and we can do an impromptu lesson on reading the course.

This was my guess of the line ( if the real track was matching the map ):



Based on my video game experience, the less I needed to turn the wheel or use the brakes the better the line and the faster the lap.

And also so far I one of the many things I have learned in my limited runs is don't look at the map too much. Like everyone is saying

I burned a lot of time the week before my first event on that. After my 2rd event I noticed it was pointless beyond remembering the sequence of left, right, left and a few mental notes like "course narrows up around this area".

The intent of the course map (aside from helping us to set up the course the way we intended) is to keep you from getting lost. Generally, if you've studied the map a little bit, you should be able to drive the course even without walking it. (usually) But, to be fast, you need to walk the course and pick up the nuances.

And I'll let you in on a secret... even if I designed the course, helped set it up, and walked it twice... it's not at all uncommon for me to end up driving parts of a course differently than I'd envisioned. You learn a lot on your first run!

A quick side note to any fellow noobs. I thoroughly recommend taking a half hour to click through all the menus on the FAST website, I tend to spend a lot of time reading the forum and forget about the actual website. There is a ton of information on car classing, car prep, what to do before & during an event and much more. If you haven't checked it out yet it is well worth it.

As an example, I was thinking about race numbers for the upcoming event and thought I'd like to do do something nicer than painter's tape numbers on the car door. I started off in MS Word choosing the biggest font It would allow but it really doesn't work. So I thought maybe I can import some clip art numbers to print... an hour or so later after searching the web for large printable numbers I found an Australian website that would sell large format clip art numbers for printing. I didn't really want to pay for clip art numbers so for the hell of it I Googled "autocross numbers". Of course a few sign printing companies popped up who would be happy to sell me magnetic or self adhesive numbers. But.... Looking a little lower down the page I found a link to guess where? FAST Autocross website with a page of full size numbers in pdf format, free & ready to print. The exact thing I had been looking for off & on for a couple of days was already right here on the FAST website.

So it pays to look around the website - you never know what you may find.
Dan

Indeed.

Good schtuff here, too:
FAST Digital Novice School
Car Numbers Good & Bad

Loren wrote:wide enough to squeak a G8 through... just

dbeng wrote:I was thinking about race numbers for the upcoming event and thought I'd like to do do something nicer than painter's tape numbers on the car door. I started off in MS Word choosing the biggest font It would allow but it really doesn't work.
Dan

Dan, you can enlarge the font size in Word bigger than the drop down maximum size. In the font size box, just click and clear the font number, then type in 200 (I think that's the size number you want for 8 inch numbers).

Cheers !

Perfect advice for me! Those lines help me out a lot! All great advice.

Yes, i've perused a lot through the sites and even found myself reading the SCCA classing rule book one night (oh the things we find entertaining as we get older lol)

That's awesome they have print ready numbers! I'm actually a "retired" grahpic designer so if anyone needs help or wants some really custom magnets, hmu! Did someone say FAST trading cards?

This forum has been such a wealth of information, I'm suprised more people aren't active on it, i love it

p.s. yes , Loren, conservation of momentum...we used to have to trace circles on the ice with the radius based on our height and you would have to make a complete circle with one push and hopefully you had enough to make it around, if not, you had to get creative with your weight distribution to eek out the last few inches, and the more advanced levels had little swizzles and turns the whole way...but it was ALL about getting that good line and speed from the beginning!

Jamie wrote:Cat (and others) -- don't study the map too hard, simply because it's certain to change during setup...might only be a little because of the cone "scale", or it might be a lot as Loren and safety make adjustments. So learning it exactly from the map won't help.

Anyone in the afternoon session (or anyone who can hang around into the afternoon a bit) is welcome to join me for an extra walk, and we can do an impromptu lesson on reading the course.

we're staying for the afternoon to get more practice in!

PurpleCatG356MT wrote:but it was ALL about getting that good line and speed from the beginning!

Autocross is exactly the same. Find the smoothest and most efficient line and carry as much speed as you can through the course.

Loren wrote:

PurpleCatG356MT wrote:but it was ALL about getting that good line and speed from the beginning!

Autocross is exactly the same. Find the smoothest and most efficient line and carry as much speed as you can through the course.

Like a pickup line in a bar at closing.

twistedwankel wrote:

Loren wrote:

PurpleCatG356MT wrote:but it was ALL about getting that good line and speed from the beginning!

Autocross is exactly the same. Find the smoothest and most efficient line and carry as much speed as you can through the course.

Like a pickup line in a bar at closing.

although, i wouldn't want to be with the fastest guy in this scenario