Da Groj

Thanks everyone for a great event. A lot of firsts for me at this event. The layout was really fun, this must be the first course I've ever run with no slalom! Add to that my first run in the rain and first time with a camera on board to add to the enjoyment. Come to think about it, also first time doing timing set-up and working grid which all in all made for a fantastic day's entertainment . Come to think of it, watching the RX7 drifting a good portion of the course in the rain was quite entertaining too!

Philip - a big thank you for letting me use the GoPro for my runs and getting the video uploaded so fast. It's the first time I've been able to look back and see my runs first-hand. Let's start with the blatant DNF on run #1 , I had no idea I had DNF'd it up at the time until I looked at the timing screen! After re-studying the course map I thought I'd figured out what went wrong and the video confirms it. - So much for remembering what I'd learned on the course walk...

The next thing I notice is my hand position on the wheel is horrible so need to work on that. Also, I'm nowhere near the cones on any apex so I'm giving away tons of time with unnecessary steering input and therefore running a wider line than I need. It is a great opportunity to see what I'm doing (wrong) and now can go about fixing it. I need to focus on the basics first and hopefully the speed will follow.

Looking forward to the next event Nov 8th which being a Sunday I will definitely be able to attend.

See you all there. Dan.

Photos from the morning group at Tampa Bay Downs.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/135773738@N05/9F3q2v

Great job by all who organized and ran the event!

Jon, Tyler and Aaron

RedBaronRacing wrote:Photos from the morning group at Tampa Bay Downs.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/135773738@N05/9F3q2v

Great job by all who organized and ran the event!

Jon, Tyler and Aaron

Great pictures!

RedBaronRacing wrote: Great job by all who organized and ran the event!

Jon, Tyler and Aaron

That was a great pictorial story of the morning events.
Thanks for taking the time to record it all for we afternoon folk.

Did anyone get the Semi's best time?

Drew turned a 62 on his bike in the PM.

So the worst part of the day was running behind schedule, but who really cares? What a great time!

Eva and Doug - thanks very much for the ride. Yeah, I spun it just like Jamie did, but he did it on grippy Brooksville concrete - I win. I really enjoyed your car - I can see the FERS/BERZ attraction! If I had a couple more runs with your car, I'd have been able to really kill it out there. And I'm sure the cone scuffs will buff out...

The course turned out great. I got several kudos, some folks really liked it, others found it "intimidating." Loren's write up was spot on. I think a big part of it is, we're so used to driving at Brooksville that "look ahead" literally means "right in front of you." At TBD, it means you must scan left and right too, which many of us are not used to. Still the course turned out great, thanks to Drew and Loren's tweaks.

Mohammed - thanks for bringing all the folks out. Y'all be nice to Lori as you watch the vids - she did great, and just like me, if she had few more runs, she'd have been quite the contender!

It was a busy day: towed cars, rain, semi-trucks, but everyone handled it nicely. It's a great team we have, and thank you to all who contributed! Very much appreciated. As were the pix - thanks guys!

Jamie's 42.1 second run is a pretty good example of how to drive this course. Doesn't show hand inputs, but shows you the fast line.

https://youtu.be/A3XPpWgKTQU

Inserted a version with some comments - Jamie

Loren wrote:Jamie's 42.1 second run is a pretty good example of how to drive this course. Doesn't show hand inputs, but shows you the fast line.

https://youtu.be/A3XPpWgKTQU

Inserted a version with some comments - Jamie

So smooth...

Short shifting into my car was at the very least a quarter second slower based on my videos and counting the frames.

Here's my fastest video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idre6B0ugM4

If I was closer to the apex cones and didn't have all the extra steering inputs I think I could have done better. At least I was close to Jamie's lines. I just needed Steve and Jamie to explain it to me. Thanks guys.

Phillip, your hand position is atrocious!

There are, of course, lots of ways to accompish the same thing, and I won't say "my way is the only way". But, here's an example of what I think is better hand positioning. Different course. From TBD a couple years ago in John's MX-5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0GA7QlUj70

A few extra comments:

Loren wrote:A lot of people failed to track out toward the cone wall on the outside after taking the first left apex. Failing to do this made it difficult/impossible to late apex the 2nd apex... and failing to late apex there made the next right-hander difficult. All of that conspired to keeping you from being on the throttle as much as you could be for one of the only two long straights on the course! Missing out on some acceleration there was HUGE.

In my mind, this was the key to the whole course. This is also one of the most common tricks on an autocross course (and more than a few road courses) -- a compound turn that modifies the obvious line through the first corner.

The loop. Oh, the loop was such fun to watch people screw up! From the crossover through the first apex, all the way to the second apex was one constant arc that you should have been ACCELERATING through!

Well, in the FASTiva, maybe. Best I could do was constant throttle. And although it's not on the video, not much change to steering angle for the first half of the loop.

Man, a lot of people tried to make an S out of that next straight! It was a straight! Even in a wide car, it was a straight! Yanking the car to the right before making the left just set you up "scandinavian flick" style to kick your car into oversteer for that hard left. All you needed to do was drive that straight, STRAIGHT, brake STRAIGHT, and then make the left... not super sharp, but just enough to comfortably track out CLOSE to the wall on the right.

Like I said on the video, putting the car all the way out on the wall made the line through the in-and-out hook difficult, and the hook was the key to the finish....

From there, it was a quick in-and-out to the right. Focus on the exit of that to try to maximize your approach to the final right turn and get on the gas as early as possible. I think that whole last sequence was actually the hardest part of the course to get right.

This line started with the left at the end of the straight, as above, and turning in as early as possible. Be late, and the exit from the hook led right into the outer wall before the finish. Get through it, and there was enough room to get a little throttle through the lights.

Loren wrote:Phillip, your hand position is atrocious!

And, yeah! Too much sawing around and one hand-action, especially in the first half of the run. And the car was pretty stable! You calmed down a bit after the loop, but still more motion than the car justified.

Watching my hands isn't terribly exciting, which is as it should be for a Miata -- the steering is fast enough to not need much hand-over-hand, and the long corners you want to hold a pretty constant angle.

I think I forgot the basics of how not to suck ( smooth hands, and throttle ). My car wanted to spin all the way around the loop. I think I just wanted more speed than I had grip for.

I loved the course design but I wish I had more than two dry runs on it. It's SO different from the Brooksville courses that I have become far too comfortable with.

I spent much of my first few runs reacting to the course and making too many corrections as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQuI0GnmGHs

Thank to all who make it happen once again!

And You're Welcome to everyone who ran after morning session 1! We had 2 "dry" (1 damp really) runs on an incredibly dirty, gritty surface in slick conditions with very overcast weather. You had to be very ginger and smooth to get a decent run. We then had 2 soaking wet runs, which were fun, but there was certainly no time to be gained. It rained steady for a while, then cats and dogs for a few minutes.

I also empathize with morning group 2. They had 2 wet runs with puddles, followed by sunny, mostly dry conditions. In turn, they could capitalize on their last 2 runs, at least.

By afternoon, we had wiped the course clean of dirt and tiny pebbles, and the weather had cleared and heated up the surface. I'm jealous! But quite happy that most of S3 shared the morning session.

True story, Loren.

And a great quote from one of my favorite movies of all time. I use that line on my kids regularly!

Loren wrote:Jamie's 42.1 second run is a pretty good example of how to drive this course. Doesn't show hand inputs, but shows you the fast line.

Dear Mortals,

Jamie is a great novice/pro instructor but Sophia probably takes a better line in the econobox on AS tires.

I have finally learned what I've been repeatedly told by all the fast ES/S4 drivers whom I used to consistently beat with my RX8 on 255/17" 200 Hankook S3's and 245/18" 140 Rivals. "These RE71's are just awesome and stick like 710's."

Also if one used the puddles as apex points just staying dry was good for more than a full second. As was mentioned my first video run in the first run group was greasy and the "hook" hooked me with no braking grip...aka one cone. But FUN.

I would have loved to follow Drew's 3rd run when he used his rear tire to clean away all the marbles including 6 cones in two key locations so he could follow it with a mind blowing FTD line....again:) Freakin' Drew the trailbreaker even at the end of the day

Watching a couple videos over the last few events I will suggest some of you with aging cars over 8-10 years old would greatly benefit from all new neoprene bushings that effect steering/suspension precision (slop). When I rode with the "apprentice alien", Phillip in my 04 RX8 with all new suspension/steering/alignment wear components his hands were as steady as the Gibraltar object putting down a downright scary fast run followed by a dementedly fast run when he discovered proper ABS for the first time driving on his own. Some competitors complained of the blinding reflection off his teeth from his permanent grin. Enthusiasm is a priceless driving trait.


Obviously this course is a keeper and (I was told) at least part of it was reused by PCA Sunday if for no other reason it was still clean of mud. I was amazed how few cones were hit. 4 runs on this one = 8 at airport for learning curve.

I also heard a rumor that Loren and Ben are prepping a Rabbit for the Dog Track to get FTD.

The Mayor

Rosko wrote:...an incredibly dirty, gritty surface....

The back part of the lot stayed pretty gritty all day -- that affected the right hander coming out of the first straight and the loop; less so the right hander after the "green gate". Florida parking lot asphalt...almost like driving on the beach.

Loren wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPVLyB0Yc6I

That was my day yesterday, up at Brooksville. At least the dirt off the runway has firmed up a bit....

https://youtu.be/WV01KBlXVzA

Rosko wrote:Thank to all who make it happen once again!

And You're Welcome to everyone who ran after morning session 1! We had 2 "dry" (1 damp really) runs on an incredibly dirty, gritty surface in slick conditions with very overcast weather. You had to be very ginger and smooth to get a decent run. We then had 2 soaking wet runs, which were fun, but there was certainly no time to be gained. It rained steady for a while, then cats and dogs for a few minutes.

I also empathize with morning group 2. They had 2 wet runs with puddles, followed by sunny, mostly dry conditions. In turn, they could capitalize on their last 2 runs, at least.

By afternoon, we had wiped the course clean of dirt and tiny pebbles, and the weather had cleared and heated up the surface. I'm jealous! But quite happy that most of S3 shared the morning session.

There were a few of us in the afternoon that got to run the course with a fresh coating of anti freeze after Greg blew a hose. I hit it in one turn where it felt like I was on oil, I was tentative until my last run when it seemed to have dissipated.

Joe

twistedwankel wrote:Watching a couple videos over the last few events I will suggest some of you with aging cars over 8-10 years old would greatly benefit from all new neoprene bushings that effect steering/suspension precision (slop).

Will that increase NVH by any appreciable amount, or is it the motor mounts bushings that is most responsible for such a change? I have increasingly large cracks and tears in most of my suspension bushings so a refresh is in order.

In my case, I went with OEM rubber, it lasts a long time and dont have to have them lubed up peridoically, but man it was hard on the wallet. But there are aftermarket options such as hardrace bushings (if its offered for miatas like it is for hondas).

Evan wrote:

twistedwankel wrote:Watching a couple videos over the last few events I will suggest some of you with aging cars over 8-10 years old would greatly benefit from all new neoprene bushings that effect steering/suspension precision (slop).

Will that increase NVH by any appreciable amount, or is it the motor mounts bushings that is most responsible for such a change? I have increasingly large cracks and tears in most of my suspension bushings so a refresh is in order.

I've never been a fan of racing my daily driver which was usually a sit outside winter beater anyhow saving my nice car for sunshine. Contrary to common discussion any racing requires frequent wear item attention. Look at awesome Tim's posts to keep his daily driver 100%. Jamie wrote the book on making a race car/daily driver last.

Noise I would definitely be concerned with metal on metal so find out what's causing that. Thumps on bumps Mazda's bump stops on rear shocks especially don't last a long time. Mine were completely gone and rear springs sagged. I replaced them with factory new ones Mazdaspeed discount cheap. Never put used suspension crap on your race car unless you really trust the seller.

Vibration could be worn steering rack bushings at speed or even a steering shaft bushing or mount inside that needs some tightening. Definitely a cause for concern. Bent wheels? Have someone you trust go over your car on lift stands looking for unsafe parts. They might find something you missed. Don't know if Miata uses the oil filled Motor mounts like the RX8? Mine recently started leaking so I had them replaced but I noticed nothing different other than the vibration of the shifter was non existent then.

Handling. A well set up car almost drives itself in my mind. I've let 100's of good/great drivers compete in my many "contests" over the years and they all do very well with the rare exception of a FWD Fiesta Full Race car driver who wasn't used to turbo's and spun my RWD automatic in a 2nd gear only contest.

Note: It is well documented that the C4 Vette if one did not keep all the rear bushings in good condition would most likely have an uncontrollable "episode" racing. The left and right turns were just plain totally different causing unforeseen control issues. Far as I know this was totally resolved with C5 series and they even replaced the plastic end links with metal ones in 2000.