Suspension refresh and upgrades.

[Lava Speed 05]

Matt, I like 3.5 degrees of negative camber up front, 3.25 out back, 1/16 inch toe out front, 1/16 inch toe rear and 4.5 degrees of caster.

Question for you and anyone else really... If you could get significantly more Camber up front would you do it? I'm thinking the 3.5 front and 3.25 rear will already put a hurting on my street tires if I'm driving around town, but with the new ball joints I can get in theory a little better than -5° in the front. The nice thing with the ball joints is I can run the -3.5° in the front and it would be the same "stress" on the bushings, to prevent slippage, as a -0.5° camber setting.


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[Loren]

Personally, I draw the line at about -2.5 for a regularly street-driven car. I've seen people run around -3 and get away with it, though. And now Joe's running as much as -3.5. I think that's REALLY pushing the limits of what you can do without completely eating your tires on the street.

-5 degrees is something you'd do for a track car. Look up Spec Miata alignments.

If you're running a lot of camber on the street, it's really important that you ZERO your toe. The camber by itself isn't too bad. But, if you couple it with some toe, you'll flat-spot the inside edges of your tires in a hurry!

[Lava Speed 05]

We were planning on zero front toe as I changed to that last year and it wasn't too noticeable at events and it made highway driving more relaxed.

I wasn't thinking of doing more than what Joe has but I was just curious.

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[Loren]

Also bear in mind that certain tires are designed to work with certain camber angles. Tires that are designed for street use may be optimized for 2-3 degrees of camber, whereas full racing slicks might require 3-7 degrees to work well.

Just as an example. The BFG Rival, which is derived from the old BFG R1 autocross tire, probably has the old R1 trick of having a softer sidewall on the inside to compensate for street cars that can't get a lot of negative camber. (that's the real reason that they are asymmetrical, not just the tire tread pattern)

And a lot of "performance oriented" tires will have this info readily available from the manufacturer. Tire Rack is a good source for some of it:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... techid=266

The relevant part of that (and this applies to Rivals, as it is written by BFG specifically for that tire... don't try to apply it to OTHER tires!) is: "In general, we recommend that front camber be in the -2° to -4° range, and that rear camber be in the -1° to -2.5° range."

[Lava Speed 05]

Going to run the Kuhmo V720, not seeing anything on tire rack like what BFG gives on the rivals. I'll have to look around.

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[twistedwankel]

Matt,
Joe said he changes his alignment specifically for an event then back to normal when he gets home. Only one or two events a month makes sense since he has good equipment. Can you just mark your dual settings to change the day before an event? Or just change your new coilovers a fixed amount to back out camber when not racing? Your tires can be rotated so you can equalize wear somewhat even if you cannot flip tires on rims.

**I saw a couple Honda's with -10* in the rearend last weekend. They do that on purpose. There's a club. Maybe they will let you join?

Doug

[jev61]

Doug is talking about Joe B changing his alignment for events, I can't do that.

I use tire temps to determine camber, whatever it takes to make the tires happy. I don't street drive the tires, but they wear even. The camber wear about equals the shoulder wear, however I heat cycled out the tires before wearing them out this time around. I also run toe out up front too, not much, but just a little.

Suggestion for you, look around for some wheels and tires to commute on, that would solve the tire wear problem for you. I'm going to be unloading some tires in about a month for cheap that will be the perfect commuter tire for you. You need some cheap wheels to mount them on.

[Lava Speed 05]

I have high tread wear summer tires on the factory wheels sitting in my garage all fresh with the mold release still on them. :-) I just didn't want to toast them in six months as my last street tire say latest like three plus years

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[twistedwankel]

I have high tread wear summer tires on the factory wheels sitting in my garage all fresh with the mold release still on them. :-) I just didn't want to toast them in six months as my last street tire say latest like three plus years.

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"Cheers" street tires. There. They're "toasted". Relax. What?...did you stop driving bike into Tampa? Every "serious" autocrosser has a "dedicated" race car. Joe V has "two". I have "two". Loren has "none". But he does okay with the other stooges= Larry and Moe. So that has to count for a lot in M4.

You should be driving that minivan to work. Get sympathy from co-workers and Boss won't be jealous. Pick up parts for race car.

[Lava Speed 05]

I have high tread wear summer tires on the factory wheels sitting in my garage all fresh with the mold release still on them. :-) I just didn't want to toast them in six months as my last street tire say latest like three plus years.

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"Cheers" street tires. There. They're "toasted". Relax. What?...did you stop driving bike into Tampa? Every "serious" autocrosser has a "dedicated" race car. Joe V has "two". I have "two". Loren has "none". [emoji38] But he does okay with the other stooges= Larry and Moe. So that has to count for a lot in M4.

You should be driving that minivan to work. Get sympathy from co-workers and Boss won't be jealous. Pick up parts for race car.

I do mostly drive the van, but I still will drive the MSM for commuting as well as the bike once this brutal heat and violent rains let up.

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[ImpostorDan]

I'm very concerned about the intellectual property sharing going on in this thread and it's potentially M2 class disrupting ramifications. I mean first... It's amazing the car may show up relatively complete; however, it's a completely different plane of conscience if the car is perhaps dialed in...

[Lava Speed 05]

I'm very concerned about the intellectual property sharing going on in this thread and it's potentially M2 class disrupting ramifications. I mean first... It's amazing the car may show up relatively complete; however, it's a completely different plane of conscience if the car is perhaps dialed in...

It is even going to another event for testing before the season opener, prepare to lose. [emoji89]

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[ImpostorDan]

I'm very concerned about the intellectual property sharing going on in this thread and it's potentially M2 class disrupting ramifications. I mean first... It's amazing the car may show up relatively complete; however, it's a completely different plane of conscience if the car is perhaps dialed in...

It is even going to another event for testing before the season opener, prepare to lose.

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Your DL expired?

[jev61]

I have high tread wear summer tires on the factory wheels sitting in my garage all fresh with the mold release still on them. :-) I just didn't want to toast them in six months as my last street tire say latest like three plus years

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My thought was el-cheapo AS tires on narrow rims as commuters, but use what you have. The camber wear will be an issue, but flip the tires and don't do any burn outs.

[Lava Speed 05]

My thought was el-cheapo AS tires on narrow rims as commuters, but use what you have. The camber wear will be an issue, but flip the tires and don't do any burn outs.

But... But... Miatas were built for burn outs! Ha-ha, I think I've proved I'm not a burn out type of guy. I try to do burnouts and I end up go agricultural... [emoji15]



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[jev61]

You gotta counter-steer with all the turbo torque. Us mere mortals just stomp it.

[Loren]

"Torque"? That's not a real word. You made that shit up. It doesn't even look like a real word. Look at that Q in the middle all weird like. Nope. Not buyin' it. Never heard of such nonsense.

[Jamie]

I think he meant "toque", like the hat. But I've never seen a turbo hat with oversteer. Wouldn't that hurt your neck?

[AScoda]

Torque is that thing that real motors have.
One of my favorite quotes from Car and Driver's John Phillips:
"Horsepower is when your foot gets caught in the stirrup and you get dragged for a mile. Torque is when you push down on your erection and your feet fly out from under you."

[twistedwankel]

Torque is that thing that real motors have.
One of my favorite quotes from Car and Driver's John Phillips:
"Horsepower is when your foot gets caught in the stirrup and you get dragged for a mile. Torque is when you push down on your erection and your feet fly out from under you."

Drew can read? Wow. Wonder who taught him and bought him a magazine? Loren? Steve? Brian?