Feb 17th Brooksville

[AScoda]

Here is video of my fastest clean run:
49.1 run #4
You can see the path, not necessarily the best line. I screwed up a couple of areas on this run.
Should help those who were getting lost.

Oddly enough, the extra walls were put in to help the newer autocrossers find their way. The first wall on the way out that was causing people to miss that one gate could have been simply lay-down cones, as all it was there for was to point people to that side of the track in order to find that next gate that they were driving past. Not sure how that other gate ended up with small cones, I tried to make sure those were only used for walls or pointers.
Something that may help in the future is to have the courseworkers call in the spot where people are missing gates. Someone near grid can point that out with a map. Drivers didn't know where they went off unless someone rode with them or they rode with someone else.
Everyone was helping the best they could as far as giving rides and riding along as "pointers". Parade laps probably would have helped a little. Or some chalk lines in a couple of areas. Before we started running, though, everyone seemed to have found their way around fine. When the gates started coming at you speed(which was pretty quick), it was easy to get out of place.
It was challenging and a little different, and that's what I wanted it to be.
Hope it didn't scare off any newcomers. :shock:

[Jamie]

One thing to add to your list, Jamie, unless I missed something, is that there were no timer problems again. That was my biggest fear, to be honest. A timer problem could really have cut down on run efficiency.

Yes...timer was great. And looking over Charles' shoulder while I was in the trailer, it looks like automating the system is progressing nicely.

The first error was the crossover on the way out. There was a cone wall, a gap, then an apex cone with a pointer and another wall. The novices wanted to turn through the first gap, which should not have been there.

The second error was at the finish. There were four offset gates at the finish. They started on the left, then the first gate on the right was made using small cones. I saw at least 20 runs where drivers missed that gate.

We spent some time looking at the first feature, and debated putting an additional cone wall there -- I still think that would have confused the issue. The problem was actually the first wall, which masked the following gate and pointer cone until you rounded the end. If you were thinking ahead and looking for it, there was no problem. If not, or if you hadn't walked the course and didn't know it was coming, there was a good chance you'd turn in early. Not an intentional "gotcha" feature, but that's the way it worked out. We'd probably have done better to lay down most of the cones in the first wall, so you could look ahead over them and pick up the pointer further out.

The second...yes, the gates with the little cones just didn't attract the eye. No more little cones on course, except maybe as pointers!

BTW, Bay News 9 just said that the low tonight in Brooksville will be 22, and there's currently some rain in the area! 8)

It was pretty chilly up here last night...low cloud and blowing pretty good this morning. Good day for working in the garage.

[Loren]

Just in case anyone who wasn't there is monitoring this thread... "fast" is a relative term. It was fast for the elements that it used. In the Nissan, we never hit the rev limit in 2nd gear. It's a 6-speed, so 2nd gear is pretty short... probably 52-55ish. I've seen faster courses at SPC, where we had to use 3rd gear.

So, it was a FUN course, it was a CHALLENGING course, but it wasn't a truly "fast" course. Which is exactly what autocross is supposed to be.

[muddy]

I have reviewed the videos my runs, and I see that I am wrong about the placement of the "small cone" gate. A lot of people did blow the finish, but I don't think it was a design flaw.

I don't want to dump on Drew or anyone else any more about the event, but I think this was a good learning experience.

Crossovers can be fun, but they really do limit the number of runs that can be made. In my experience, the best place for a crossover is just before the turn-around. This minimizes the amount of time waiting for the first car to crossover the second time before sending the next car. I also think that the safety person should more closely evaluate the course, not just for safety, but also ensure that the course is easy to navigate and clearly defined.

[AScoda]

I want to give a big thanks to everyone who helped make the event run smoothly. Especially Jamie, who always seemed to be right there when we needed something. He also had the run groups and worker assignments all ready ahead of time. If I had to do those yesterday morning we wouldn't have started until noon.

I really hated to see all those DNF's and I wish I could have given you guys one more run in the right direction.

[Anonymous]

I thought the course was excellent. It had a few elements which you don't normally see at Brooksville, like the late apexes of the crossover.

So that makes Drew 2 for 2 on good course designs. Good job.

[Jamie]

...I think this was a good learning experience.

I also think that the safety person should more closely evaluate the course, not just for safety, but also ensure that the course is easy to navigate and clearly defined.

I was, and we made some changes along the way as a result -- additional pointers on the return side of the course, changed the entire finish -- but evidently could have done better...which is why I'm looking as these lessons learned very closely. :shock:

[CorradoVR6z]

Just in case anyone who wasn't there is monitoring this thread... "fast" is a relative term. It was fast for the elements that it used. In the Nissan, we never hit the rev limit in 2nd gear. It's a 6-speed, so 2nd gear is pretty short... probably 52-55ish. I've seen faster courses at SPC, where we had to use 3rd gear.

So, it was a FUN course, it was a CHALLENGING course, but it wasn't a truly "fast" course. Which is exactly what autocross is supposed to be.

On my last run I actually hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear in a split sec which should be close 65mph near the end of the course. I wasn't expecting that...

[Cone_killa]

Hey everyone! I wanted to thank you for putting together a fun event! For me the course was a lot of fun and challenging at the same time. I only walked it once and that was enough to figure out which way to go. However, for the novices or those with little autox experience it was hard to follow. I was working station 2 so I had access to both areas where most if not all DNFs took place, the crossover and the gate with little cones. I'm not sure how bad it was in the other run groups but the last group I worked in was REALLY bad! Some drivers DNF'ed all 4 runs. Some missed the crossover some missed the gate to the far left and some missed both, on the same run!

I think the wall just before the crossover gate is what confused people, and since looking ahead takes lots of practice I doubt novices can get it right on their first event, unless an instructor was with them or perhaps a parade lap to show everyone where they're suppose to go. I tried my best to call in the location of the off course and to suggest an instructor ride along with those who kept DNF'ing. This was a learning experience.

It was still a great event and look forward to the next one!

Jamal

[kickslop]

I want to add that although I had a really bad day, I think everyone did a good job.

- Jamie is always there to field a few of my questions at every event.
- I was excited about the course. Oh well.
- The driver's meeting started roughly on time.
- The course workers HUSTLED. There were some track stars out there during the 1st run group.

I'm just hoping this is the last event for a very long time where we get less than 6 runs.

Something that may help in the future is to have the courseworkers call in the spot where people are missing gates. Someone near grid can point that out with a map.

Definitely would help, and I was under the impression that calling in your station number was a given "rule". It wasn't touched on deliberately during the driver's meeting, so wasn't in peoples' heads.

There's one thing I've found to be true in autocrossing with different clubs: If there isn't a concise (not vague bullet points) checklist of things to cover in the driver's meeting, something always gets left out that ends up causing someone some grief. I'm making a separate thread under "General" about this.

Just out of curiosity... I'll be "that guy" ... what was with the orange Sentra running in multiple run groups with the same driver(s) for, unless I am mistaken, 5+ runs for the day.

[Loren]

I was in timing when Jeff was playing instructor in the 2nd run group. There were lots of first timers, several in REALLY FAST muscle cars. Jeff didn't want to drive their cars for a "show me" lap, so he took his. Apparently, it really helped the newbs out a lot. Could he have maybe stuffed those drivers in with other experienced drivers running in the same group? Yeah. Did he think about it? Nah. (I asked him on the drive home... he just didn't think about acting as a "liason" rather than an "instructor")

He got 3 runs out of it, but if you ask those who rode with him, they'll tell you that they were definitely not "competition" runs. He was pointing out the course and talking all the way through it... and it showed in the times. He ran a 51.7 in his comp runs. (and would have broken into the 50.xx's on his last run if he hadn't messed up coming toward the finish) 53-56 seconds on his instructor runs.

Jeff was just trying to help some first timers get the most out of the event. They could have very well been among the multi-DNF crowd if he hadn't done that. Personally, I'm cool with it.

[Charles]

Here's the results. Congrats to Justin Sims and his Stalker for their blazing FTD!!

Does anyone remember for sure about the RSX that finished just ahead of me in F, pretty sure he was on R-tires. Also not sure how he ended up in F unless there was some kind of forced induction I didn't notice?

Everything else seems to be in line.

Congrats to Drew for knocking on the FTD door as a newbie to R tires and Jeremy for finishing I think it was almost 2 secs ahead of anyone else on street rubber.

[CorradoVR6z]

Does anyone remember for sure about the RSX that finished just ahead of me in F, pretty sure he was on R-tires. Also not sure how he ended up in F unless there was some kind of forced induction I didn't notice?

I also noticed he was on R-tires... how could he be in F? Maybe he didn't claim he was running on R-tires? That isn't fair...

[Alizarin]

Definitely would help, and I was under the impression that calling in your station number was a given "rule". It wasn't touched on deliberately during the driver's meeting, so wasn't in peoples' heads.

There's a difference between "You missed something near Station 4 (out of only 4 stations)" and "You missed the gate after the slalom, on the left, see it? (points to course in a vague direction) It's over there!"

[Native]

I'll check into the budget on buying more cones. Finishing up the timing system is gonna come first. If we keep talking up the club, showing newcomers a good time and keeping our attendance up, we will have no problems doing both. Soon.

RSX in F is misclassed. Can you tell me what class he should have been in? I don't want to move him if I don't know where to put him.

65mph is over the speed limit for the Airport, and per our insurance. Your speedometer must be miscalibrated. Might want to get that checked. Or are you just running smaller diameter tires?

I'm one of those (or the one) who described it as a "fast" course. Shame on me for not being more clear, but I did not mean velocity, I meant the speed with which the gates approached - you had to be on your toes and quick...75% of the time I wasn't.

[CorradoVR6z]

65mph is over the speed limit for the Airport, and per our insurance. Your speedometer must be miscalibrated. Might want to get that checked. Or are you just running smaller diameter tires?

I'm running on stock diameter tires. I said around 65mph because that's where the 2nd gear rev limiter on my car is and I actually reached it for a sec. Besides, who have time to look at the cluster while racing?

[muddy]

got video!

<br>[img]http://thumbs.vidiac.com/ced9289c-e330- ... c413a4.jpg[/img]<br><br>Click
here to see Video

I am surprised anyone could have reached 65 mph, aside from the two cars that had a raw time faster than mine. From my video I can see that I reached near 60 twice, but never came close to 65.

[d_rasp]

I don't think Bill Colleran with his FMII turbo & non-stock suspension belongs in G. . .not sure what that dumps him in.

[Native]

Well, the turbo x1.5 still keeps him in G. Unless the computer has changed fueling, etc. If his non-stock suspension is non-stock springs - that bumps him. Just a shock change won't. Do you know what his suspension mods are? Or if the ECU/fueling is modded?

[Jamie]

RSX in F is misclassed. Can you tell me what class he should have been in? I don't want to move him if I don't know where to put him.

If on R-compounds, he belongs in C. If on street tires, in G.

65mph is over the speed limit for the Airport, and per our insurance. Your speedometer must be miscalibrated.

Speedos are notoriously inaccurate anyhow -- plus or minus 10% isn't uncommon.

I'm one of those (or the one) who described it as a "fast" course.

You meant a "FAST" course...which it was.

I don't think Bill Colleran with his FMII turbo & non-stock suspension belongs in G....

The FMII kit would put him in E, since it uses non-stock engine management and fuel injectors (altered fuel delivery). The Voodoo kit looks legal within the Production rules -- runs the stock ECU and injectors, which is why it's boost-restricted. If he changed the springs, that too would move him to E. Swaybars and shocks alone are within the Production allowances.