Da Groj

I like the pro class idea even though my car will class horribly on the 100 treadwear R-comp Jr's I'll be running. Well that and the fact my car is only down 3" of width per wheel and 200ft lbs of torque among other things needed for full SM prep.

I wouldn't sweat figuring out the pax comparisons etc for this pro-class. The people that end up running in this class won't be newbs and will KNOW this info. You won't get a newb showing up at registration asking what his index is for the "pro" class.

Either way I'm moving from a class where my car is an overdog "D" to somewhere as an underdog.

Since the new season doesn't start until the next event after this one why don't we just do a trial of the pro class for anyone who wants to try it. We can post the pax for the classes and make the adjustment for the cars on stock tires that would normally be on R compounds at a SCCA event as Loren suggested.

That's basically what I did by examining the last 4 events, Howard. But, we can add one more recent event to the mix.

We need to decide if we want "qualifications" to run in the Pro class, or if it is just open to all who dare.

Being purely PAX-based, I guess it wouldn't hurt anything to leave it "open".

We've always worked with the rule that anyone is allowed to run in a higher class if they so choose. I don't see any reason to change that now. If someone isn't truly qualifed for PRO but wants to see how he stacks up against the toughest competition, I say let them try.

Okay. Well, with that... I'll volunteer to run the figures for the coming event plus the prior 3 or 4 events and provide that info here. BUT, I'm not gonna run stats on EVERYBODY.

So, who's in? I need to know what class you're claiming, too.
Howard (EP)
Loren (FSP street tires)
Jamie (CS)
Jeremy (BSP street tires)
Steve (ES street tires)
?

I am probably in.

BSP on street tires.

I'm curious, but I have no idea how to class me...maybe CSP?

Native wrote:I'm curious, but I have no idea how to class me...maybe CSP?

If your car is legal for FAST Production class, you should be okay to run your SCCA stock class. What's that, ES?

Yeah, E stock.
Wasn't sure if we were going totally SCCA, or keeping with our own rules...

Loren wrote:If your car is legal for FAST Production class, you should be okay to run your SCCA stock class.

That's a little bit too generous. In that case, my car would be "A stock with street tires." I say we use strict SCCA classing. "A stock with street tires" would be a .813 pax for me, I doubt I would ever lose with that pax. I'd only have to beat the Yaris by 7 tenths, as opposed to the BSP pax, I need to beat you by 1.68 secs.

I would say Steve's car fits better under STS (STS2) 0.820

This is going to be a smallish class, I expect, and I think we need to be flexible about our classing. If we go by "strict SCCA classing", my car isn't legal for FSP or even STS, as it doesn't have a back seat.

What do we allow in our Production classes that you feel invalidates the index? We don't allow spring changes or non-factory alignment, we don't allow much that will significantly improve power or decrease weight.

Wheel widths? I went from a 7" to a 9" wide wheel in the front. That's got to be worth at least half a second.

And it appears that the difference between our street tired BSP and street tired AS is 0.96 seconds on a 60 second course, so that jives.

Loren wrote:If we go by "strict SCCA classing", my car isn't legal for FSP or even STS, as it doesn't have a back seat.

Looks like you are driving in SM or Prepared then.

I really don't like the idea of getting anal about our classing. Just because someone is good enough to compete in our "pro" class doesn't mean they've prepped their car to SCCA specs.

I guess you have a point with the wheel widths... it can make a difference.

My first thought was that you were cheating yourself with "BSP on street tires", because your car is nowhere near BSP spec. But, I guess you're not cheating yourself any more than I am... my car is far from being a serious "FSP" contender.

I'm gonna suggest that we let folks declare a class and if anyone wants to "protest" their choice, we can discuss.

Perhaps we can loosely agree that most of the stuff that we allow in our Production classes will be overlooked. Changes in wheel width of... say more than 1" would be a good limitation to enforce.

Loren wrote:Perhaps we can loosely agree that most of the stuff that we allow in our Production classes will be overlooked. Changes in wheel width of... say more than 1" would be a good limitation to enforce.

Sounds good. But...
Shouldn't we add that restriction to our production class rules also? Did any production cars other than me take advantage of this rule last year?

All in all, I am not real excited about the pro class. If I wanted to run SCCA pax, I would go to an SCCA event.

Maybe if I saw some sample results with some close racing, I might be more interested. At this point, running in Class A or one of the new mod classes sounds like more fun to me. I like large classes made up of similar cars.

Jeremy17 wrote:

Loren wrote:Perhaps we can loosely agree that most of the stuff that we allow in our Production classes will be overlooked. Changes in wheel width of... say more than 1" would be a good limitation to enforce.

Sounds good. But...
Shouldn't we add that restriction to our production class rules also? Did any production cars other than me take advantage of this rule last year?

No other cars come to mind with a 2" increase or more in the production classes. Most of our regulars just don't seem to take advantage of this, that kind of increase is probably only do-able if you have a RWD car that isn't a Miata.


1" limitation might work or the handful of people going to the pro class can sit down and agree on their classing/indexes over a beer or 2

Let's not "fix" Production, it's not broken.

Charles, you're thinking along the lines I am... small group of "Pro" drivers, we should be able to agree on what mods to overlook and what indexes to use.

Hah. A new class? Why? We have so many classes as it is that we can't even run the SAME CLASS at the SAME TIME.

PAX analysis of the past 5 events for those who expressed interest is attached. Looks like this could be a very interesting class. (whether Carl likes it or not)

What happened to Steve's modified ES pax? He would have won 2 events with that.

I forgot all the things Steve has done to his car... like the lightweight flywheel, additional weight reduction, etc.

STS is a better fit for his car.