Da Groj

The course designer (Hi, my name's Loren) designed the slalom such the the "easy" or "natural" entry (the left) would be difficult on the exit. The last slalom cone was offset 6 feet to the right on Saturday and a full 12 feet on Sunday. If you entered the slalom on the left, you had to slow down from your established slalom rythm to make that last cone... especially on Sunday.

Personally, I never tried taking that slalom to the left. I did it to the right and it all came together as I felt it should have. I never heard anyone say that going left was overwhelmingly better than right (a couple people said they did it that way and had gotten used to it, but not that it was better), so I never bothered to try it.

If you got the exit of the turn-around right and managed to late apex that last cone there, you were in pretty good position to tuck in for the right-side slalom entry. If you botched the turn-around exit... I can see it being troublesome getting over to the right. One of several examples on this course of how you had to think WAY ahead because a small mistake in a certain place can have a major effect three turns later.

The right worked out good for me! I tried the left once, but the exit killed me. There was some good 'mash the pedal' spots too. The entry to the first Chicago box was a pretty straight line. I was getting deep into third gear there! The other one was entering the slalom from the far turnaround. Jeremy and Charles did a better job of taking advantage of that one then I did. Their rear wheels were lit up clear to the first slalom cone :shock:

snookwheel wrote:The other one was entering the slalom from the far turnaround. Jeremy and Charles did a better job of taking advantage of that one then I did. Their rear wheels were lit up clear to the first slalom cone :shock:

I think you're confusing inadequate grip with "taking advantage". You probably drove it the same way they did, you just had enough grip to keep your tires from spinning. Which is why you finished first!

ok so I will do the right side next time even if that means going left

yamaha731 wrote:ok so I will do the right side next time even if that means going left

The choice is not always as clear as (I think) this one was. Even this one had a lot of people guessing. If you're not sure, try both... but do it before you get too accustomed to doing it one way or your decision will be tainted by the fact that you remember how to do it one way better than the other.

The real key here is to pay very close attention during the course walk (look at the map, too... but know that things don't always go down "exactly" like the map). If you really looked at it, you could see that the last slalom cone was off to the right, you could eyeball the position it "should have" been in, and pace off how far off it was. With that, the decision to enter on the right should have (in my opinion) been an easy one.

Loren wrote:I think you're confusing inadequate grip with "taking advantage".

Probably so, the stalker definitely has a smoother power delivery and more importantly probably a diff that works.

I actually had my best time of the day Saturday trying the left on my last run of the day, but I tried a couple other things different as well. Maybe had I stayed right, with the other changes in place, I wouldn't have finshed down in third.

Season Points have been updated. Thanks, Jeremy!

WOOOHOOOO....My best overall finish ever! I made it into the top 20 Saturday!

I did have a great time out there this weekend. I really enjoyed the course on both days. I also really appreciated how much work everyone was willing to do Sunday. Nice group of people we are! Yellow_Colorz_PDT_03

Loren wrote:The choice is not always as clear as (I think) this one was. Even this one had a lot of people guessing. If you're not sure, try both... but do it before you get too accustomed to doing it one way or your decision will be tainted by the fact that you remember how to do it one way better than the other.

I am one who fell victom to this. I heard fast drivers talking about the right being the better direction but I was so adjusted to the left it was hard to make the switch.

The time is coming for me to step up and co-chair my first event. I will plan on doing January if someone will help me out.

Check out my first vid! Sorry...I couldn't leave it stock!

Turn up your speakers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG4x1fNPcKo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Congratulations on making the top 20. The vid was cool and your driving looked really smooth.

All the posted videos are really good. 8)

I should have had somebody strap a camera to my car.

Videos from Sunday.
Jeremy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0eVy_ddU9g" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Charles - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hivyndj9YQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Had a camera malfunction on Saturday. So no videos.

Somebody needs to edit down Jeremy's video and include subtitles pointing out all the things that he's doing right. Then we need to put it on our website under "how to do it right".

I still love that camera angle. You can see hands and where the driver is looking, along with a great view of the course.

I particularly like how Jeremy drives the slalom. He's SO far ahead of that slalom, it's amazing!

I Loved the Saturday course even though it was a bit challenging and I’m sooo happy I was able to take a top 20 spot on all seasons even though it was 20th lol. I thought I was addicted to Autocross after SPC events but now it’s at a whole new level.

Loren wrote:Somebody needs to edit down Jeremy's video and include subtitles pointing out all the things that he's doing right. Then we need to put it on our website under "how to do it right".

I'll get one of his raw video files and see if I can figure out how to do that.

Who knows, it might even help me stop being slow

I think Loren courses force you to learn how to read a course more so than others.

Dang, those videos are very humbling. I think my car lets me get away with more than it should. I knew I was never nailing the far turn-around, but didn't realize just how botched my attempts really were!

Interesting. I just watched some of Charles and went back and watched Jeremy again. Charles isn't bad, but you can see a few things he does that are a little off if you look closely. (not picking on you, Chuck, just using you as a learning tool!) Actually, Jeremy makes some iffy line choices, as well.

Here's what I see:
Charles is using a "point and shoot" technique on the big cross-course esses. This means he's taking each apex of the S tighter than he has to, and isn't getting through them as quickly as he could. Watch him. He puts a little straight in between each one. Jeremy takes a more smooth S-like line with just the slightest hint of a straight in between them. (except for when he botches the first left and things get messy)

Both of them are botching the turn-around, but Jeremy manages it better. Notice how they both are right on the entry apex cone, and in particular how far AWAY from the exit apex Charles is. Jeremy manages to get closer to the exit apex, probably just by managing his speed (slowing down). What they may not have noticed is that I moved that apex cone 25' closer to the center of the course from Saturday. Apexing on that cone was a little iffy on Saturday, but it worked if you had grip (I recommended blowing past it just a little bit for a wider entry and more forgiving exit), but on Sunday, apexing there on the entry was designed to put you too wide on the exit. Getting wide AND deep on that apex (in other words, nowhere near it) would give you a wider entry and allow you to carry more speed around the turn-around, giving you a better line on the exit apex AND more speed going into what was probably the fastest section of the course. (Ironically, I knew all about this trick, as I designed it, and I STILL let that apex suck me in a few times!)

Fun, huh?

Both of them also gave up a good 10-15 feet of space on the exit of the near-end turn-around. Not using that space to track out means they were giving up speed they could have carried through that turn and into the 2nd fastest straight on the course.

Does it make y'all feel better to know that even our fastest drivers still make mistakes? 8) Nobody ever achieves the perfect autocross run.

I'd comment on Scott's video, but watching his car is so much like watching a video game that I can't quite process it!

Loren wrote:Interesting. I'd comment on Scott's video, but watching his car is so much like watching a video game that I can't quite process it!

After watching Jeremy's video multiple times, it is glaringly obvious that I was way later on the slalom and many other areas.... Lots to learn. Accelerate sooner, brake later and less, turn sooner etc... I am interested in any critique... in spite of the video game issue! Yellow_Colorz_PDT_04

I probably should use the same camera we used on Mary's run to get the full view next time.

Scott

I'll try to sit down and ponder your video later, Scott. Things really do happen quickly in your car.

While I'm thinking about it, several people asked where the BBQ came from and I couldn't remember the name of the place. I had it on paper, but gave it to the guy who picked it up (thanks, Terry!).

Deep South BBQ

so is it going to be a year before next Endurocross I really liked doing that and I missed fastest street tire bye 0.082 of a second (congrats Aaron)