July 21 Autocross - SPC

[Alizarin]

We have to reset the police course? Grrrrr...

[Native]

The new rule at SPC is that everyone has to reset the police course, everytime. Saturday or Sunday, even if another club will be there the next day - it gets put back.

grrrr is right.

[Jamie]

Just to see how Mike's crew is stacking up:

Event chair
bama_rebel_2000 (Mike)

Course Set Up 7AM (needs 2)
Dave
Drew

Course Tear-down (needs 2)
Brian

Run Group Calculation / Worker Assignment Chief (needs 1)
Jamie

Technical Inspection (needs 1-2)
rippin' mazda
chokeasphyxia

Registration 7-9AM (needs 2)
Muddy

Supplies (needs 1)

Lunch (needs 1)
bama_rebel_2000 (Mike)

Safety / Course Marshal (needs 1)
Ron Croft

Trailer Transport (needs a big-a** truck)
Bill Flowers

The two assignments for setup and teardown doesn't mean we can't use more help...but only two people for each will get credit for a work assignment. We need some of you left to work the run groups!

51 entries as of tonight...less than 20 spots left!

[Dave-ROR]

Jamie: I offered my services for tech and course setup in the 2nd or 3rd post of the thread, feel free to add me to your list

[AScoda]

Brian Kollar and I already volunteered for set up.
And yes, more people will be greatly appreciated. Quicker setup too.

[Native]

I'll be there to unlock the gate, and can help where needed - registration? setup? kinda co-chairing with Mike? makes no never-mind to me. 8)

[Alizarin]

The new rule at SPC is that everyone has to reset the police course, everytime. Saturday or Sunday, even if another club will be there the next day - it gets put back.

grrrr is right.

We should get a discount on our fees then. I'm not cheap labour, ya know.

[kickslop]

I can't fit 10 cases of water + 6 of soda in my car.

I will handle getting soda and water for the day + as much extra as I can.

Someone else will have to get ice.

[Formula1]

Would someone please post the course layout? Did I miss it somewhere?

[Native]

No course yet. It's in the works, and will probably be posted at some point prior to the event. Or, if the organizers choose, it may be a surprise...

[bama_rebel2000]

i will help with course setup and teardown i will also bring 6 bags of ice. do we need more water.
bama_rebel2000

[Jamie]

i will help with course setup and teardown

Mike -- you're the event chair...no extra assignments for you. Trust me, you'll be out there doing lots of things without signing up for more!

[rippin mazda]

I'm planning getting there around 7:30 so I'll help with whatever setup still remains.

Ryan

[rippin mazda]

What is the plan for run groups for this event? Are we going to have the same as the last event with morning and afternoon heats and two run groups within each heat?

I'm having some family come out to see what this autocross thing is, and trying to figure out what time frame to give them to show up.

Ryan

[Alizarin]

I'm having some family come out to see what this autocross thing is, and trying to figure out what time frame to give them to show up.

Same here. SPC is a good place for people to come out and watch.

[Charles]

I can't fit 10 cases of water + 6 of soda in my car.

I will handle getting soda and water for the day + as much extra as I can.

Someone else will have to get ice.

Say what?

So you can get enough soda+water for the event or not?

If not I guess I can get all of that and you could get the ice....more like 7-8 bags to start with.

[Jamie]

What is the plan for run groups for this event? Are we going to have the same as the last event with morning and afternoon heats and two run groups within each heat?

If the weather holds to season, we'll do morning and afternoon heats...how many run groups depends on how many drivers show up.

I'm having some family come out to see what this autocross thing is, and trying to figure out what time frame to give them to show up.

I'd bring 'em out in the morning -- can't pin it down more than that for you, because we won't know how many groups and exactly when each will run before we complete registration that morning. Hazard of not having everyone pre-registered with a huge deposit guaranteeing they'll show up.

[Loren]

I don't really care how y'all choose to do it, but I want to be sure everyone realizes the amount of time wasted by splitting into morning and afternoon run groups. Even if you only have two run groups (at SPC, I expect you'll have enough drivers to need at least 3), if you do them as two run groups rather than four, you only have one worker change. If you split and do morning and afternoon sessions, you have three worker changes.

Worker changes kill at least 20 minutes. If you've only got two groups, that means that the group coming off of course working has to go get their cars and grid them up, they can't get ready early... so make it 30 minutes.

So, you're looking at 40-60 minutes of wasted time by splitting two run groups into two pairs of run groups. 40 minutes = 80 runs. For a 20-car group, that's 4 runs!

Yeah, I know it's a trade-off between how long we want to leave course-workers out in the hot sun in one shot, how many runs we want to get, and how early we want to go home. I've just never been a fan of adding more run groups if it can be avoided. Three to four separate run groups (not the same groups running again) is best because it doesn't require people to drive immediately after working course and gives people a full run group to rest, eat, socialize, prep their car, whatever. Having zero personal down time at a full-day autocross is less than ideal in my book.

The key to a successful autocross (and this becomes largely irrelevant if there are less than about 40 cars, which is why you can often get away with all sorts of things at Brooksville) has always been efficient time management. With the 60-70 cars you should get at SPC, plan on 3 groups of 20 drivers. 20 drivers x 8 runs. 30 seconds per run (we usually get a better start interval than that, but 30 seconds is good for planning) means 80 minutes of run time per group. If the course ends up being one that requires a 35 second start interval, cut the number of runs down to 6 or 7 to keep the group times below 90 minutes. Three 90-minute groups + 1 hour of total worker change time plus 1 hour for lunch = 6.5 hours. Start at 10am, done at 4:30... and that's a worst-case scenario.

Anybody want to do the math for how that would work if you split into two pairs of run groups? Or 3 pairs? Keep in mind that more than 20 cars gridded at SPC gets pretty crazy.

Just food for thought. Carry on.

[impalanut]

There are already 58 signed up. If we get that many it will be best to have 4 groups. Each person will run one, work one, and spectate two with a few working two gruops to make up for the people who work at other than course workers. If we don't limit sign ups we could have a lot more.

[Jamie]

I don't really care how y'all choose to do it, but I want to be sure everyone realizes the amount of time wasted by splitting into morning and afternoon run groups.

I know...did not just fall off the turnip truck....

Split heats are undesirable, but the math works out like this:

- It takes an absolute minimum of 12 people to work a run group: 2 at each of 4 course stations, 2 in timing, 1 starter, 1 person in grid. Five more -- one more at each course station and a writer for the results board -- are desirable. Considering a few people in each group will have completed early work assignments -- registration, tech, etc -- makes the minimum run group 15 cars. I avoid groups larger than 25. Split the difference and use 20 for estimating.

- Empirical data from lots of events over the years shows that one car off every 20 seconds is about the maximum safe throughput. Course design (especially crossovers or closest approach points), timing issues, and worker efficiency affect this. I normally estimate one car every 30 seconds...we've been averaging slightly better than that. So we turn over a run for everyone in a group every 10 minutes, plus or minus a few depending on group size and how smooth things run.

- There's lots of grumbling if we run fewer than 6 runs...not much less if we run fewer than 8. Thus each run group requires about 60-80 minutes, plus or minus. None of this counts turnover time between groups.

- In cooler weather, I try for run groups no longer than 90 minutes to avoid tired workers. That enabled 8 runs per group without a break earlier in the year. However 90 minutes is too long in 90-degree, high-humidity weather -- even discounting someone going down to heat exhaustion, bringing a tired, heat-soaked worker in and quickly sending them back out as a driver is not smart. Not to mention that people don't have fun if they're exhausted. I use 60 minutes as a maximum for hot weather.

So...we could limit ourselves to 6 runs and push them all through at once...it's possible. If we want 8 runs, we need to split them up.