Feb 15 Post Event

[Professional_Slacker]

I really liked the course. if anything I would have liked to see it slow down even more. or at least have been a touch longer.

all in all I thought it was a real blast to drive.

[aw614]

You guys actually drove that slalom as the course designer (me) intended. I let people talk me into making that slalom optional and I shouldn't have. It totally changed the return side of the course and I think made it WAY less fun to drive. So... maybe a second slower... but you guys had more fun.

I was wondering about that and had walked the course as if it wasn't optional, if it was one way only, I probably would have avoided the rev limiter after the slalom.

There was a similar slalom at the bmwcca-pca event and it wasn't optional and I drove it as an optional slalom during the parade run only to be told it wasn't optional lol.

its tempting, I need to do some research on 225/45/18, Stock size for me is 225/40/18 and tire clearance on lowered golfs have issues with tire fittment without fender rolling.

225/45 will be 22mm taller than the 225/40, so half of that will close your existing tire/fender gap. Here's a handy tool for playing with offsets and tire sizes:
http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

You will definitely need to roll front fenders if you plan to run them at your current ride height. Seems a small price to pay to take advantage of a $200 set of rubber . . .

Yeah, but modifying the fenders is permanent, some guy did it on golfmk6, but it was a DSG on DG springs and they dont lower as much as four door manual springs

[dbeng]

Had a great time yesterday morning. I really enjoyed the course, it was a nice change from the 'traditional' slaloms that usually show up in the runway courses.
Having said that, I still spaced out on my second run and completely missed the last gate to the right before the turn around. I was delighted with taking 5 seconds off the time of my first run until the grid worker (sorry I don't know your name) told me I had DNF'd the run. I had no idea where I had messed up so the third run was taken extra cautiously to make sure I didn't repeat the same error, with a Look Ahead - Stay Ahead of the Course mantra. I found out where I screwed up the second run by almost doing the same thing again. Just managed to get through the gates by the skin of my teeth completely out of shape.
The fourth run finally came together, shaved about 3.5 seconds off my benchmark knowing there was more to come. Then totally overdrove the fifth run - screwed up before the turn around I knew there was no chance of improvement.

A few firsts for me though- first event run completely solo, with no instructor during any runs and first event with no cone penalties!

I managed to grab a few passenger rides too- always fun and another chance to learn. Especially since everyone I rode with hit third gear at least once while I pottered around in second the whole time.....
It was a blast as ever and I can't wait to get out there again. See you in March.

[NervesOfThrill]

Nate, nice run boss! When I saw the final results I was hoping you would post a video so I could see it.

Dan, you are really smooth now. Watching your runs while I worked the course made me jealous of just how smooth you are.

Scott, these words are blasphemy.

if anything I would have liked to see it slow down even more

Just ribbing you but my preference is the faster the better as it suits my car and driving style.

[Professional_Slacker]

Nate, nice run boss! When I saw the final results I was hoping you would post a video so I could see it.

Dan, you are really smooth now. Watching your runs while I worked the course made me jealous of just how smooth you are.

Scott, these words are blasphemy.

if anything I would have liked to see it slow down even more

Just ribbing you but my preference is the faster the better as it suits my car and driving style.

I like fast too, but I like technical more. it seemed to me with the amount of DNFs today, this course was a little more technical than many were prepared for.

[Loren]

FYI...

This course was as fast as a true autocross should ever be. Maybe even a touch faster. Look at any club or insurance company's definition of autocross, and it says something like "maximum speeds for the fastest cars should not exceed normal highway speeds", some even specify a maximum speed. It is very hard to regulate, of course.

To put it into perspective, a Really Fast street car (something like Les' Corvette) should almost never exceed about 70 mph. Which means that a slow car like my Miata should never exceed 60 mph. Any course that has a stock-engined 5-speed Miata (or anything similar) hitting the rev limiter in 2nd is borderline. If I have to shift into 3rd, it's a really fast course.

This course had me on the rev limiter on the way out, and in 3rd on the way back. You won't see a faster course than this at a FAST event. Not only would it be in violation of our contract with the airport and our insurance policy, it would simply be irresponsible.

[Professional_Slacker]

FYI...

This course was as fast as a true autocross should ever be. Maybe even a touch faster. Look at any club or insurance company's definition of autocross, and it says something like "maximum speeds for the fastest cars should not exceed normal highway speeds", some even specify a maximum speed. It is very hard to regulate, of course.

To put it into perspective, a Really Fast street car (something like Les' Corvette) should almost never exceed about 70 mph. Which means that a slow car like my Miata should never exceed 60 mph. Any course that has a stock-engined 5-speed Miata (or anything similar) hitting the rev limiter in 2nd is borderline. If I have to shift into 3rd, it's a really fast course.

This course had me on the rev limiter on the way out, and in 3rd on the way back. You won't see a faster course than this at a FAST event. Not only would it be in violation of our contract with the airport and our insurance policy, it would simply be irresponsible.

I hear you, I hit 3rd a few times and was surprised as I didn't expect it. probably one reason why I was having adhesion problems. The RE-11A tends to be a little greasy on the spyder based on my experience and that of AX'rs on the net I've talked to. but being able to carry more speed gave me the wiggle room to ride it out and just stay on the gas. don't think I could have done it on other lay outs I've seen so far..

[Native]

Fun day, mediocre driving on my part. Hope my worn out tires had something to do with it and I'm not just regressing.

Anyway, I've driven at a couple of events with other clubs lately and it's confirmed. FAST is the most fun, friendliest group around! I really appreciate all the effort that goes into these events.

Dave

Thank you Dave!
And of course it's the tires

[nathanwilliams617]

Nate, nice run boss! When I saw the final results I was hoping you would post a video so I could see it.

Thanks dude! You're looking good too, all that seat time is paying off.
**********
Concerning this course being fast- I loved it, it allowed my fat girl and my agressive driving style a fighting chance. Throwing a fast course in the mix every now and then is a welcomed varience

[Loren]

Pffft. You guys have forgotten what a slow course actually is. (if you ever knew)

It's not unheard of for a course to require a downshift to first gear. I'd probably get lynched if I set up a course that did, though.

I've driven (not designed, but driven) courses with things like first-gear hairpins and 45-foot slaloms. These types of things USED to be regular parts of autocross. Folks like Doug and Jamie, maybe even Les can back me up on that. The response over the past 10-15 years to people always wanting "faster" courses has almost made them obsolete.

[aw614]

I miss the SPC style courses, from the ones I competed in, the different surface and course designs gave me something different to prepare for, especially since I never got to setup the tire pressures when I ran at SPC or use better tires.

Do most RWD cars not have a first gear lock out? All the fwd cars I've driven have a lock out... I think one of the classic events, it felt like I probably could have down shifted to first, but I've never done it aggressively and just rode through 2nd.

[Loren]

I don't think any cars have a first gear lockout on a manual transmission. (computer controlled automatics are a different story) They just have the physics of the transmission and engine and the speeds that they are turning.

Consider that the difference in gearing between 1st and 2nd means that if you're at 2500 rpm in 2nd (a pretty slow speed... around 20 mph), when you downshift to 1st, you'll be at 4000 rpm. To get into first gear at that speed, you need to do two things: 1) have some patience and allow the first gear synchro to work. 2) Give the throttle a HEALTHY blip (you've got to get from 2500 to just over 4000!) to make the synchros have less synchronizing to do.

Because most people don't give that big throttle blip to get the revs up to 4k, it will often FEEL like the transmission is locking you out of 1st gear.

You could get into double-clutching theory, but for a quick downshift with a properly functioning modern synchromesh transmission (modern being anything made since about 1930!), a good throttle blip and some mechanical empathy (don't jab it into gear so hard that it grinds) is all you need.

[twistedwankel]

Goodbye

[Loren]

I didn't think hooning had any limits.

[Jamie]

To get into first gear at that speed, you need to do two things: 1) have some patience and allow the first gear synchro to work. 2) Give the throttle a HEALTHY blip (you've got to get from 2500 to just over 4000!) to make the synchros have less synchronizing to do.

Yep. That worked for the '79 Rabbit I started autocrossing with, a variety of Hondas after that, and the Miata. But it takes some practice, especially while braking at the same time...lots of footwork.

[Loren]

On a completely unrelated note, I just added a bunch of YouTube videos to the FAST Video Gallery. Ran across some fun old vids.

This one is a piece of history. To set it up, this was Scott's first event in the Solo Vee (that now belongs to Les and has a ventilated engine block) and he really had no idea just how much GRIP the car had. Listen to me tell Scott to "push harder". It wasn't this run, but I'm pretty sure it was this day where the phrase "push harder, suck less" was first used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZJJYezyoKk

[BrilloHeadBen]

There was an SPC course with a literal pin turn that IIRC had me grabbing first. I thought it was cool as hell, but I also recall a healthy dose of bitching from multiple sources. With that in mind, we should definitely do that again!

[Loren]

There was an SPC course with a literal pin turn that IIRC had me grabbing first. I thought it was cool as hell, but I also recall a healthy dose of bitching from multiple sources. With that in mind, we should definitely do that again!

It's been a really long time. I might toss one in somewhere. Maybe dream up a way to make it optional. (an easy, but much longer turn vs. a tight hairpin)

[NervesOfThrill]

I hear you on the insurance policy and the contract with the airport and understand and respect both of those imperatives.

This course was as fast as a true autocross should ever be.

On this,,,,, I've never been much of a purist at anything when it gets between me and my fun.

Like Popeye says, "I am what I am". I just unapologetically prefer/enjoy the faster course setups. They give me more of what I like best about a day AutoX'ing and tilt in favor my cars strengths.

I know nothing about AutoX history but given the comments about courses requiring 1st gear downshifts dying out it sounds like faster courses have become more the norm; I'm guessing due to popularity. So I've picked the sport up at the right time it appears. I'm sure loving it.

My favorite two courses I've run so far were the Dec 6th course and the PCA course I ran on Jan 11th. Those both "felt" fast. I actually got my rpm's above 7k in 2nd gear on the PCA course which was exhilarating.





Having said all of that, I've thoroughly enjoyed nearly every course and am positive every one of them has made me better. In my mind that is as true AutoX as it gets! Go fast, get better, have fun!

[Carracer]

The Dec 6th course was fun! I really liked the rhythm. I personal don't look at speed as much as rhythm. Some layouts are just plain stupid fun to drive.