Suspension refresh and upgrades.

[twistedwankel]

You guys underestimate The Matt. He can drive both my cars without issues. I have yet to drive his car without "issues".

M2 Monster. The "Copper Top".

Dan....you learned from Les how to drive your POS (9ft white dong) all the way to 2nd in Duel. You should keep Les as your instructor/mentor. He will make you win something other than a BS fun event? M2?

[Lava Speed 05]

Well we have the alignment almost dialed in. Started with the front too low at 11.5" or about 3.33" pinch weld, camber was -5.25°. Raising it up brought the camber right in to -3.5° goal.

I might tweak the rake a little tomorrow and the front toe is way out so that just needs to be tucked in and it will be good for the road. I'm going to get a laser alignment to make sure the thrust angle is good.

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[Loren]

Glad it's finally starting to come together!

[jev61]

Well we have the alignment almost dialed in. Started with the front too low at 11.5" or about 3.33" pinch weld, camber was -5.25°. Raising it up brought the camber right in to -3.5° goal.

I might tweak the rake a little tomorrow and the front toe is way out so that just needs to be tucked in and it will be good for the road. I'm going to get a laser alignment to make sure the thrust angle is good.

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Triple check your ride heights with your weight in the driver's seat, it will make a difference. I started with the rear higher than the front, but could not keep the tail of the car behind me. You can move the rear ride height up or down a little bit without totally messing up the rear alignment to make the rear end behave the way you want it to. I like reverse rake, but to each their own. The biggest concern will be running out of travel in the rear, too low and the rear of the car will snap around on you when the rear fully compresses.

The next time I have the car aligned, I plan to raise my ride height 1/8 inch. It might not matter at B'ville, but at the dog track and horse track it should help the car absorb the uneven surface without upsetting the rear end mid turn. I think with the extended ball joints up front and the lower ride height we have with the coil-overs, we can still get the camber we need without being too low. Anyway, just my thoughts, not worth very much.

[Lava Speed 05]

Thanks guys, going to fix the toe now so I can drive it around a little to let it settle in and recheck everything.

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[Loren]

I started with the rear higher than the front, but could not keep the tail of the car behind me. You can move the rear ride height up or down a little bit without totally messing up the rear alignment to make the rear end behave the way you want it to. I like reverse rake, but to each their own. The biggest concern will be running out of travel in the rear, too low and the rear of the car will snap around on you when the rear fully compresses.

I bet you're feeling the results of camber change in the rear more than "reverse rake". Remember that lowering the rear suspension adds negative camber. If you had the rear higher than the front and changed NOTHING other than the rear ride height... lowering the rear adds negative camber, which will help tame the rear of the car in a turn. A very rough estimate is a degree per inch, or .25 degrees per quarter inch.

Miatas are designed to have no rear toe change, so the rear height adjustment doesn't throw the toe off. Just changes camber. If you have adjustable hight, it's a quick and easy way to get a camber adjustment without having to realign the car. (if you do the same in the front, you'll have to reset toe)

And, you definitely need some suspension travel to keep from bottoming out and going into snap oversteer in the rear... but, also in the front to prevent "terminal understeer".

[Lava Speed 05]

I was thinking that too Loren, but my suspension knowledge is weak. I'm tossing around the idea of dropping the front a little more to get it at a zero rake or lower in the front.

12 6/8 -3.5° front 12 3/8 rear -3.75° rear is where it's at now if I remember correctly from this morning.

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[Loren]

Take all measurements with your weight in the driver's seat.

A touch under 13" isn't a bad place to be as long as your springs are stiff enough.

[Lava Speed 05]

Take all measurements with your weight in the driver's seat.

A touch under 13" isn't a bad place to be as long as your springs are stiff enough.

504lb/in front
336lbs/in rear

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[jev61]

4.5 inch driver's side front with your weight in the seat, rear level is a good place to start. Raise or lower the rear after the first couple of events to adjust the "feel" of the rear of the car; a quarter of an inch can make a noticeable difference without screwing up an alignment. At 4.5 inch front ride height with 504 front springs, your front tires will touch your fender liners. I've gotten used to the sound and don't mind the small holes the tires have made at the top of the liners.

[twistedwankel]

Matt, I've had good luck with 4.5 inch front, 4.25 inch rear ride heights measured at the pinch welds. I like 3.5 degrees of negative camber up front, 3.25 out back, 1/16 inch toe out front, 1/16 inch toe rear and 4.5 degrees of caster. Vortex Motorsports did my last two alignments if you are looking for a shop. You can do the ride heights at home with weights and a tape measure, just unhook your sway bars and put your body weight in the driver's seat before measuring ride heights. It won't be as good as setting cross weights, but it will be cheaper. Oh, I forgot to mention, I don't use a rear sway bar, just the big RB front bar. Air up your tires to racing pressure too. Make sure the front sway bar moves easy in its bushings, if not put washers under the mounts so it won't bind. The big RB bar is tuff on the OEM mounts, so watch out for that. I can't think of anything else at the moment and you didn't ask anyway.

Memo to newbies: It took Joe probably 5 years to learn all this and he's still driving the same car. THAT might be the most important message. It takes a long time to fully develop your car once you leave the Stock classes.

[Jamie]

It takes a long time to fully develop your car once you leave the Stock classes.

Ha. It takes a long time to fully develop the driver even while you're still in the Stock classes....

[jev61]

It takes a long time to fully develop your car once you leave the Stock classes.

Ha. It takes a long time to fully develop the driver even while you're still in the Stock classes....

It most certainly does. I like to make the car go faster even if I can't drive it faster.

[twistedwankel]

Take all measurements with your weight in the driver's seat.

So Ben is at an alignment disadvantage with Steve and Loren who weigh the same?

[Lava Speed 05]

So all I have to say is you guys are screwed... We both took the car out before our finalizing the numbers and came back grinning ear to ear. That's with 500 tread wear tires on it, oh and I had the front tires backwards. [emoji23]

Front: -3.5°, 0 toe, 12.25"
Rear: -3.5°, 1/16" in, 12.50"

It's going to go to a shop to get a free alignment check to make sure the thrust angle is good, other wise we're going to keep it as is. Eventually we'll hit Joe up for a corner balance.

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[ImpostorDan]

See you at 'downs.

[jev61]

Matt, now that you have some miles on your new setup, re-check your ride heights. I did yesterday; my driver side rear had settled 1/16-inch and the passenger side rear was 3/16-inch lower than I had set. I was already an 1/8-inch lower in the rear than the front, so settling wasn't doing me any favors. I decided to raise the rear of the car to match the front, so now I will be level at 4.5-inch at the pinch welds all the way around. I don't know what that translates to in hub to fender measurement, as I can never get the same measurement twice. Hopefully, my recent case of snap over-steer will go away with a little more rear suspension travel.

[Lava Speed 05]

Thanks Joe, I haven't driven the car too much but I will be giving it a once over before the next event to make adjustments if needed! We decided to set it level on the initial setup/alignment and I was happy with how neutral it was. Les I believe would like the rear end a bit looser, which is doable note that the car is more planted.

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