FAST Open Autocross - Sep 23 - Brooksville

[Loren]

Second class has to be FN.

[Jamie]

Needed to vent after driving all afternoon in Spring Hill looking for new tennis shoes with a sore heel.

Why on earth would you want a pair of tennis shoes with a sore heel? Are you torturing the shoes?

[Rpwolf]

So I switched my morning session to fun runs and I'll be doing points in S1... then I notice a particular BMW in S1. Getting my excuses warmed up lol

[Jamie]

So I switched my morning session to fun runs and I'll be doing points in S1...

In the simplest language possible: You can't run the course for practice before you run for points. Even in different cars. Even if you're going to get your ass whipped.

[Loren]

I said it even simpler a couple days ago:

Second class has to be FN.

[Loren]

And your car number has to be different for each session.

[ctsteege]

So I know this is late notice, but I am looking for a possible co drive for this event. I have some tire $$ for ya. I would love to codrive an S4 car. Sold my red miata and haven't had a chance to fix my speed yet. I am signed up for the morning, so if I can't find a nice, willing, awesome person to let me share their car then I'll have to drop out.

Thanks guys.

[Evil MS3]

Casey, you can have a go with my miater if you'd like.

So I know this is late notice, but I am looking for a possible co drive for this event. I have some tire $$ for ya. I would love to codrive an S4 car. Sold my red miata and haven't had a chance to fix my speed yet. I am signed up for the morning, so if I can't find a nice, willing, awesome person to let me share their car then I'll have to drop out.

Thanks guys.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[ctsteege]

Casey, you can have a go with my miater if you'd like.

That would be amazing Taylor. Your the man!! Help you scrub in those new RE71s

[Evil MS3]

Casey, you can have a go with my miater if you'd like.

That would be amazing Taylor. Your the man!! Help you scrub in those new RE71s

Damn straight lol

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[BoostedTupperware]

First timer here, excited to get absolutely destroyed out there, should be fun! But a noob question. Trying to figure out my class. Saturn Ion Redline, scaa is GS. So thats M3, got it. Bump up for smaller pulley e85 etc, of cool thats F street. Got it. So why is it not alphabetical?? This is copy pasted off the site. So I am now FS, but that is in m2, where ES(as far as I know its faster as its ABCDEFG, is this an error? Or am I a moron? Thanks for the help, dont roast me too hard, I used the search bar to no avail.

M0 – Open Modified Street Tire (SS/AS, bumps and unclassed but streetable cars)
M1 – Modified Street Tire 1 (BS/CS and bumps)
M2 – Modified Street Tire 2 (DS/FS and bumps)
M3 – Modified Street Tire 3 (ES/GS/HS)
M4 – Voluntary bump down from M3 (max tire width 205, no LSD)

See here its

A
B/C
D/F
E/G/H

AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE???

[markzeronine]

What are you driving in m3 Randolph?

[Jamie]

First timer here, excited to get absolutely destroyed out there, should be fun! But a noob question. Trying to figure out my class.

AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE???

Nope - just overthinking it. The SCCA classes are just for reference in binning your car into a FAST class...you're not bumping between them. So:

Stock or modified? Our rules are, "if it doesn't say you can't, you can." So E85 in itself isn't a modification...but if you changed your ECU to tune for E85, that is. Your smaller pulley modifies the factory forced induction system, though, so you're in modified.

Which FAST modified class? As you noted, being an SCCA GS car in stock form, that puts you in M3. You haven't done anything in excess of the "modification limits" list, so you're looking at the "class progression" list under factory forced induction. You haven't modified the supercharger itself. You don't say anything about modifying the fuel injectors, increasing fuel pressure, or adding water or alcohol injection. You might look at your pulley as modifying boost control, but if that's all you did -- you haven't added an intercooler (or modified one if it's fitted from the factory), then it's allowed...you'd have to do both to be bumped. You haven't modified the engine internals. So...no bump...you're still in M3. If you've done something on that list, you'd bump to M2. Done. No further messing around with SCCA classes...those are just there to guide people for initial placement.

The only other possibility is if you're running tires no wider than 205, and you have no limited-slip diff or a factory viscous LSD (you don't), you could bump from M3 down to M4, which is Loren's class for underachieving modified cars.

If you're not sure, just pick one, and ask when you show up...easy enough for someone to take a quick look and correct your class if necessary.

If you're looking for the philosophy behind why which SCCA classes are tagged to which FAST classes, come out to eat BBQ with us after the event, and we'll explain the PAX index....

[BoostedTupperware]

First timer here, excited to get absolutely destroyed out there, should be fun! But a noob question. Trying to figure out my class.

AM I TAKING CRAZY PILLS HERE???

Nope - just overthinking it. The SCCA classes are just for reference in binning your car into a FAST class...you're not bumping between them. So:

Stock or modified? Our rules are, "if it doesn't say you can't, you can." So E85 in itself isn't a modification...but if you changed your ECU to tune for E85, that is. Your smaller pulley modifies the factory forced induction system, though, so you're in modified.

Which FAST modified class? As you noted, being an SCCA GS car in stock form, that puts you in M3. You haven't done anything in excess of the "modification limits" list, so you're looking at the "class progression" list under factory forced induction. You haven't modified the supercharger itself. You don't say anything about modifying the fuel injectors, increasing fuel pressure, or adding water or alcohol injection. You might look at your pulley as modifying boost control, but if that's all you did -- you haven't added an intercooler (or modified one if it's fitted from the factory), then it's allowed...you'd have to do both to be bumped. You haven't modified the engine internals. So...no bump...you're still in M3. If you've done something on that list, you'd bump to M2. Done. No further messing around with SCCA classes...those are just there to guide people for initial placement.

The only other possibility is if you're running tires no wider than 205, and you have no limited-slip diff or a factory viscous LSD (you don't), you could bump from M3 down to M4, which is Loren's class for underachieving modified cars.

If you're not sure, just pick one, and ask when you show up...easy enough for someone to take a quick look and correct your class if necessary.

If you're looking for the philosophy behind why which SCCA classes are tagged to which FAST classes, come out to eat BBQ with us after the event, and we'll explain the PAX index....

I do apologize, I should have gone more in depth. I have 80lb injectors (much larger than stock) front mount heat exchanger, lowering springs, and some cooling mods. It IS tuned for e85, which I had to alter the ecu for. I assume the smaller pulley is considered turning up the boost, the stock is 3.35 and I am at a 2.7, but it may not. My main confusion was just simply that the letters seemed out of order. I came up with m3, just wanted 2nd opinions! Thank you for the reply! And no, I have no lsd, my car doesnt have the comp package, although I wish it did haha. IMO it seems that it goes ABCDFEG which threw me off, as in the Stock category it is in the correct ABCDEFG order.

[Jamie]

I do apologize, I should have gone more in depth. I have 80lb injectors (much larger than stock) front mount heat exchanger, lowering springs, and some cooling mods. It IS tuned for e85, which I had to alter the ecu for. I assume the smaller pulley is considered turning up the boost, the stock is 3.35 and I am at a 2.7, but it may not. My main confusion was just simply that the letters seemed out of order. I came up with m3, just wanted 2nd opinions! Thank you for the reply! And no, I have no lsd, my car doesnt have the comp package, although I wish it did haha. IMO it seems that it goes ABCDFEG which threw me off, as in the Stock category it is in the correct ABCDEFG order.

So definitely modified, and since you've fitted larger fuel injectors in conjunction with a factory supercharged car, you bump from M3 to M2. Tough crowd! But fun!

[Loren]

I don't know if anyone explained this already or not, but the alphabetic class designations come from SCCA, and it's NOT a linear progression. For the higher classes, it sort of is, but some in the middle, not so much. And on the local level... well, it just depends on who's driving.

So, you can sort of think of

Super Street - Stupid fast Sports Cars
A Street - Last year's Stupid fast Sports Cars
B Street - A little more "pure sports car", not stupid fast... but, stupid nimble, and quick enough
C Street - Last year's "pure sports cars"

Good so far.

But, then D Street may or may not be faster than E Street. Here's where you get into "types of cars". It actually starts higher up, I'll add those identifiers above, too. These are off the top of my head "generalizations" as to what each class traditionally consists of.

D Street - typical 4-door very sporty sedans. Stuff that makes you think "that car shouldn't be that fast".
E Street - "Older" low-power pure sports cars. Stuff that's on par with second gen Miatas.

F Street - Muscle Cars! Not necessarily faster or slower than C, D or E... just... different. Heavy, but powerful.

G Street - Somewhere between D and F. Think big heavy sedans with moderate power. (but, if they have "lots" of power, they end up in F)

H Street - Slugs. But, they let 200 hp turbo cars run here now... so, TRUE slugs don't have a prayer any more.

Now, the reason things change a bit when you get into modified is because FAST allows a LOT of modifications, and some classes respond to mods better than others. Plus, we do somewhat arrange our "grouped classes" according to the level of attendance for each class. For example, you take a typical ES car and throw the allowed mods at it... you might get a 170 hp car. Do the same with certain FS cars (bear in mind our mod classes allow ALL of the common bolt-on V8 goodies... cams, heads, intake manifold, headers, and tuning) and you could be pushing 500 hp (assuming the car didn't COME with 500 hp... if it does, you could be pushing 600+... which doesn't always help, but I digress).

So, not a linear progression A-H, and things go sideways when you add mods. The only reason we continue to use the "Stock" classing as a basis for Modified is because it's THOROUGH. If we tried to use any of the other SCCA categories (street touring, street mod, street prepared, prepared or modified... whew!), none of their class lists are as thorough. They leave out a lot of cars. It's just easier to start with "what stock class are you in" and go from there. It's surely not perfect, but it works for our small club.

As Jamie said, you're overthinking it. And that's fine. It means you'll fit right in! Autocross is a bit of a thinking man's game.

[BoostedTupperware]

thank you! That was the exact explanation I needed!

[BoostedTupperware]

I do apologize, I should have gone more in depth. I have 80lb injectors (much larger than stock) front mount heat exchanger, lowering springs, and some cooling mods. It IS tuned for e85, which I had to alter the ecu for. I assume the smaller pulley is considered turning up the boost, the stock is 3.35 and I am at a 2.7, but it may not. My main confusion was just simply that the letters seemed out of order. I came up with m3, just wanted 2nd opinions! Thank you for the reply! And no, I have no lsd, my car doesnt have the comp package, although I wish it did haha. IMO it seems that it goes ABCDFEG which threw me off, as in the Stock category it is in the correct ABCDEFG order.

So definitely modified, and since you've fitted larger fuel injectors in conjunction with a factory supercharged car, you bump from M3 to M2. Tough crowd! But fun!

Now my understanding of the rules, is that it is only one bump is that correct?

"A car will only be bumped up one class, bumping is not “stacked”. An engine swap AND adding a turbo would be a single class bump."

So that would just stick me to m3 correct? Or did I miss another class rule? Again thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it. I am trying to be as prepared as I can be, especially being my first run.

Thank you so much for the help, will I have the pleasure of meeting you this coming event?

[BoostedTupperware]

I do apologize, I should have gone more in depth. I have 80lb injectors (much larger than stock) front mount heat exchanger, lowering springs, and some cooling mods. It IS tuned for e85, which I had to alter the ecu for. I assume the smaller pulley is considered turning up the boost, the stock is 3.35 and I am at a 2.7, but it may not. My main confusion was just simply that the letters seemed out of order. I came up with m3, just wanted 2nd opinions! Thank you for the reply! And no, I have no lsd, my car doesnt have the comp package, although I wish it did haha. IMO it seems that it goes ABCDFEG which threw me off, as in the Stock category it is in the correct ABCDEFG order.

So definitely modified, and since you've fitted larger fuel injectors in conjunction with a factory supercharged car, you bump from M3 to M2. Tough crowd! But fun!

OHHHHHH I think I get it, it would be m2 I think. I was bumping my SCAA class from GS to FS. So with modified I bump from m3 (GS) to m2 (FS) correct? I bump the FAST class?

[Loren]

You've got it, but you're thinking about it in a non-standard way.

Your base class never changes. You have a GS car, it's a GS car.

If you're running with FAST, and your car fits within our "stock" rules, then you'll run in the appropriate class for GS. (S3 or S4? I'd have to look.)

If you're running with FAST in Mod category, then you'll run in the appropriate GS class... which is M3.

If you then modify the car in such a way that you earn a "bump" in class, then you'd bump up one class to M2.

But, your base class is still GS. That's where it all starts. That's not changing. Your car isn't becoming an FS car... it just might end up competing with some Modified FS cars. (and whatever else makes up the M2 class)