Da Groj

Haha I'm pretty sure I would be in at the top of 3rd by the time I got the turn around. I'm about 340hp to all 4 wheels. I wouldn't say I was jerky or squirrely, but my front just didn't have the grip to make the first right hander(thus lifting off the throttle to get back in a decent line). I can post a video of it later. I don't mind letting you drive or any top veteran drive it as long as it doesn't count as a run for me and they actually try to drive it properly to show me the ways and not just thrash it around for fun. I actually want to learn something from it.

I feel like I have been performing the same for a while now so I need some changing in my driving habits to break out of this plateau.

xxAGAVExx wrote:Here's a video of my fastest run 33.885s, open to any tips

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Chad. That run was almost exactly the time I had in my vette on what was a rerun making it my 3rd run and tires warm. I'm sure we both made the same conservative learning efforts. Since I was learning my new shorter RE71 tires and alignment I was able to pick up 1/2 second on the turn around by getting back on the gas quicker making the back slightly rotate coming out of the 360 while squeezing on the gas and also back on the gas quicker at the box cone accelerating out of that all the way to the finish another 1/2 second by my final run of 32.839. There were only a couple areas I was anywhere near 3/4 throttle just like you. Once we both grow more confident and trust our tires there will be later braking and more scrubbing speed with the front tires and a lot less "lifting":) People who do not have over 300FT/lb of torque pushing their cars ass normally cannot appreciate how nearly impossible mashing the gas really is on an autocross for us. We too have to maintain velocity and avoid upsetting the suspension. Mike D with his "did the whole thing in 2nd" is the smart move. I too can do 76-78mph in 2nd and always short shift out of 1st when the car is going straight. I actually used 3rd gear once at a Vette event with their 3 cones and blew all the static cling numbers off at the finish Apparently they are only good for -85? Given enough seat time you will shave a lot more time because you are smooth and know that hitting cones is never the fast time.

[quote="CaptainSquirts"]Man to many fast(no pun) people driving. Here's a video of my fastest run 34.150 40th overall, to whomever even cares

Dan. My first concern would be have you gotten all the demons out of your suspension? You've had some weird stuff happen indicating some alignment issues? The bent shaft traditionally only happens with "lifted" trucks off roading. Your use of "used" suspension parts unless dyno tested/matched might not be a good thing either? When I had my last awd over boosted car it handled just like any rwd car with a stiffer koni rear shock compared to the front so it could really rotate with 3psi more in the front tires than the rear on stock rims and -1* camber on stock suspension. I only had 275HP to the wheels but I couldn't use all that most of the time just like you. The difference I see is your car isn't fond of rotating or turning in. It likes to point and shoot. I see the EVO's and STi's both get driven like this a lot of the time but then I see them off roading like drift cars. That would be my goal to have your car slightly oversteer like that. Toe out front 1/8-1/4" and little toe in @ rear with more or same neg camber in the front than the rear. My 2 cents. When I was racing my RX8 with a blown rear shock and bent bar links it liked to uncharacteristically spin out when I or anyone else lifted at speed. I fixed that and the car was back on rails again. Even tho' only one shock was blown koni shipped me a new "set". See how that works? Matched Suspension parts work best. Good luck. Your car is a handful!!

twistedwankel wrote:

xxAGAVExx wrote:Here's a video of my fastest run 33.885s, open to any tips

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Chad. That run was almost exactly the time I had in my vette on what was a rerun making it my 3rd run and tires warm. I'm sure we both made the same conservative learning efforts. Since I was learning my new shorter RE71 tires and alignment I was able to pick up 1/2 second on the turn around by getting back on the gas quicker making the back slightly rotate coming out of the 360 while squeezing on the gas and also back on the gas quicker at the box cone accelerating out of that all the way to the finish another 1/2 second by my final run of 32.839. There were only a couple areas I was anywhere near 3/4 throttle just like you. Once we both grow more confident and trust our tires there will be later braking and more scrubbing speed with the front tires and a lot less "lifting":) People who do not have over 300FT/lb of torque pushing their cars ass normally cannot appreciate how nearly impossible mashing the gas really is on an autocross for us. We too have to maintain velocity and avoid upsetting the suspension. Mike D with his "did the whole thing in 2nd" is the smart move. I too can do 76-78mph in 2nd and always short shift out of 1st when the car is going straight. I actually used 3rd gear once at a Vette event with their 3 cones and blew all the static cling numbers off at the finish Apparently they are only good for -85? Given enough seat time you will shave a lot more time because you are smooth and know that hitting cones is never the fast time.

Thanks, yeah after reading some of the other posts I wasnt full throttle the first half, I was a little scared to keep accelerating, like u said I need a little more confidence to push it a little more


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twistedwankel wrote:My first concern would be have you gotten all the demons out of your suspension?

Haha I believe my suspension is all good now. The bent shaft I believe is from a jack dropping straight to the floor pretty quickly. But overall the suspension honestly feels pretty solid. -2 up front and -1 in the rears, and toe is 0 all around. Right now I had my Pilot Super Sports in the front at 40psi cold due to tire rolling over. It didn't roll over at all for this event, so I'm going to bring it down a couple psi and monitor roll overs. The rears were at 28psi so pretty big difference from fronts to rear. Rear don't have issues with rolling over. Not really sure what the rears should be at, that's just the normal psi tire pressure for the car. I really don't want to mess with the toe to much since I'm iffy about having crazy tire wear for this daily driver. Of course I would like more rear rotation but I've really never tried focusing on modifications to help the car handle differently and more focused on driving itself. Trying to throw parts/adjust settings is kinda uncharted territory for me so not very sure where to even start.

CaptainSquirts wrote: I really don't want to mess with the toe to much since I'm iffy about having crazy tire wear for this daily driver. Of course I would like more rear rotation but I've really never tried focusing on modifications to help the car handle differently and more focused on driving itself. Trying to throw parts/adjust settings is kinda uncharted territory for me so not very sure where to even start.

Nexen 200 wear and Toyo T1 240 wear tires both cost about $650/set for my vette's bastard sizes compared to the Michelins $950. The Toyo Proxies T1 outlasted/out performed the PSS for me and the PSS delaminated before the wearbars. PSS cost as much as I paid for my RE71's. Night and day. You have awd so rain tires are probably not a big deal. The Toyo's are excellent in heavy rain for 2/3 the price of the Michelins. I got them locally full retail and taxes installed for $750 last year.

Baby steps. Set your front toe at 1/16" out and rear at 1/16" in. I think you will be amazed how well that little bit will help your turn in. Go see Joe Brannon for that he can do that with his eyes closed in a jiffy AND can check to make sure your camber is what you think it is now that you've shaken it down. You won't notice any additional tire wear compared to xcrossing. If you don't like it no biggie he's reasonably priced so just put it back the following month. Joe performance aligned my Vette and it's like on rails now. Hwy it drives itself with no hands on the wheel. Awesome. I don't care about wear so long as it's even (cannot rotate my tires) and a Vette has a weird old buckboard wagon style fiberglass suspension front and rear but this works for me.

Steering slip angle: I am suspicious if you were to point your camera at your front tires you might find you are turning beyond 15 degrees in hard corners which is the max for most cars before they start plowing (rolling over the tire using it as a friction brake instead of steering). This might explain your need for such high front to rear tire pressure difference and tire roll over. This is a hard habit to break once you start doing it. It slows a couple FWD drivers I know but they get away with it only pulling around with the fronts.

RedBRZ80 wrote:. Good class comp all around. Always good to beat a multiple Nat champ.

According to my latest SCCA info the Porsche Boxster S is moving to C Street Jan 1st. So that means you just beat a CS car with your actual BS car...darn. Almost as bad as me beating ES for the first time in over a year. Bob Tamandli and Danny Shields should be terrorizing what's left of CS next year. My RX8 and the new Miata. The twins move to DS but stay in S2. BS inherits a few Porsches too from AS...ouch. Get rid of one buy four.

Loren wrote:Season Points are updated. Check 'em.

I hate it when I beat myself. I got over confident, thought to myself, "no problem, I got this". Then realized I drove like crap and couldn't correct the bad habits I let develop. I did the same thing in 2015 at the dog track, drove from cone to cone, came in third. Anyway, enough. The fast way around would have been flat out in third gear with a down shift out of the turn around. Shame I didn't do it. I was a second and a half faster last time we did this layout.

twistedwankel wrote:

RedBRZ80 wrote:. Good class comp all around. Always good to beat a multiple Nat champ.

According to my latest SCCA info the Porsche Boxster S is moving to C Street Jan 1st. So that means you just beat a CS car with your actual BS car...darn. Almost as bad as me beating ES for the first time in over a year. Bob Tamandli and Danny Shields should be terrorizing what's left of CS next year. My RX8 and the new Miata. The twins move to DS but stay in S2. BS inherits a few Porsches too from AS...ouch. Get rid of one buy four.

Twins with TRD parts (FRS) are stuck in CS. I just got this thing close to where I want it, so I may try a few National events even though it's no longer the car to have. The ND's killed the twins at the championship, so my expectations are not too high.

Oh, and the boxter is another car that will probably beat up on the FRS too.

twistedwankel wrote:

RedBRZ80 wrote:. Good class comp all around. Always good to beat a multiple Nat champ.

According to my latest SCCA info the Porsche Boxster S is moving to C Street Jan 1st. So that means you just beat a CS car with your actual BS car...darn. Almost as bad as me beating ES for the first time in over a year. Bob Tamandli and Danny Shields should be terrorizing what's left of CS next year. My RX8 and the new Miata. The twins move to DS but stay in S2. BS inherits a few Porsches too from AS...ouch. Get rid of one buy four.

So pax for BS at 31.393 a CS car has to run 31.661 to beat me. So his "CS" car ran a 31.7xx. So I'm still good. (He has more titles then I have years of running so I'll take the win)

Z1NONLY wrote:Twins with TRD parts (FRS) are stuck in CS. I just got this thing close to where I want it, so I may try a few National events even though it's no longer the car to have. The ND's killed the twins at the championship, so my expectations are not too high.

Hopefully you signed up for the State Championship this weekend? You would do well there.

You will have fun at the GA Tour this winter against the big boys. At Nationals I don't think it could ever be the same for me. CS had about 80 cars this year. I used to get to know all my competitors up to 25 at Nationals in any big class but no way you'd ever get to know more than a few in any class that big. Those big classes form an entire heat so it could be a very long time between runs without a co-driver on a cool day.

BTW. Are you related to Malcolm Lawson who also drives a Red FRS? He's fast too.

RedBRZ80 wrote:So pax for BS at 31.393 a CS car has to run 31.661 to beat me. So his "CS" car ran a 31.7xx. So I'm still good. (He has more titles then I have years of running so I'll take the win)

BUT FAST doesn't do a PAX. Only if you get beat or not by the Fastiva SHAME

twistedwankel wrote:

Z1NONLY wrote:Twins with TRD parts (FRS) are stuck in CS. I just got this thing close to where I want it, so I may try a few National events even though it's no longer the car to have. The ND's killed the twins at the championship, so my expectations are not too high.

Hopefully you signed up for the State Championship this weekend? You would do well there.

You will have fun at the GA Tour this winter against the big boys. At Nationals I don't think it could ever be the same for me. CS had about 80 cars this year. I used to get to know all my competitors up to 25 at Nationals in any big class but no way you'd ever get to know more than a few in any class that big. Those big classes form an entire heat so it could be a very long time between runs without a co-driver on a cool day.

BTW. Are you related to Malcolm Lawson who also drives a Red FRS? He's fast too.

I'm a member of GCAC so I will be working the event as well running in it. (I hope we get a good turnout)

Not related to Malcom. But I do know him and we end up at a lot of the same national events.

I have done four national events at Dixie and it's been good to me, but all those events were in the right car(s) for the class(es).

Cool. Am I right in assuming that the Sunday event will be the same as a normal event....time wise?

My last chance to deal with Danny Shields in the same class at the same time in the same event with decent tires. (unlike some people) Well I might get him to drive my car with enough passes? Danny is so cool he would actually do that.

http://www.gulfcoastautocrossers.com/ourevents.html Is this the right time frame? Somebody said an email would follow?

Thanks,

Doug

twistedwankel wrote:Cool. Am I right in assuming that the Sunday event will be the same as a normal event....time wise?

My last chance to deal with Danny Shields in the same class at the same time in the same event with decent tires. (unlike some people) Well I might get him to drive my car with enough passes? Danny is so cool he would actually do that.

http://www.gulfcoastautocrossers.com/ourevents.html Is this the right time frame? Somebody said an email would follow?

Thanks,

Doug

Same as a normal event but you can add a little time for awards afterwards.

We will not have our usual novice school on Saturday though. (Just test and tune)

Did anyone go out and take pictures of this event? Phillip is usually my goto on Flickr [emoji16]


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Z1NONLY wrote:

twistedwankel wrote:Same as a normal event but you can add a little time for awards afterwards.

We will not have our usual novice school on Saturday though. (Just test and tune)

Thanks. See you Sunday.

CaptainSquirts wrote:I tried giving a bit more acceleration through the start where it had the long left right left into that turn around. But on the first left, I had more speed through it but, I would have to completely let off because I did not have enough grip to get past the right hander after the first left(lost a nice chunk of time on a run due to that). When you say accelerating 100% do you mean having partial throttle or full throttle through initial half before the turn around or full throttle? I can see having some more partial throttle through these areas and even more throttle if I had 200 tread tires. I appreciate the feedback and I do see places where I could've braked a little less or accelerated earlier.

He means right foot to the floor. The first part of the course was wide open, no matter how crappy the tires -- the outbound slalom didn't demand much grip, and the sweepers less. I didn't hear even a hint of tire squeal over most of your run, so you had plenty of margin.

You need to practice looking at turnarounds. If they're circular, you want to stay tight on the inside cones...but Loren rarely lays out circular turnarounds. Visualize a circle (or draw one on the map) laid over the cones -- in this case, you'd have seen the inside cone that mattered was the last one -- the exit (it usually is). You stuck tight to all the inside cones, which forced you wide on the exit...if you'd followed a wider entry out to the end of the first wall, you'd have been set up better to late apex (cross the back) of that exit cone.

Jamie wrote:...but Loren rarely lays out circular turnarounds.

Mostly out of kindness to the course workers and those doing setup! One or two apex cones to pick up beats 20.

I also like a turn-around that makes you think. Turning around on that 150' wide slab of concrete is a necessary evil for EVERY Brooksville course. Simple no-brainer skidpad turns are boring!

He means right foot to the floor. The first part of the course was wide open, no matter how crappy the tires -- the outbound slalom didn't demand much grip, and the sweepers less. I didn't hear even a hint of tire squeal over most of your run, so you had plenty of margin.

You need to practice looking at turnarounds. If they're circular, you want to stay tight on the inside cones...but Loren rarely lays out circular turnarounds. Visualize a circle (or draw one on the map) laid over the cones -- in this case, you'd have seen the inside cone that mattered was the last one -- the exit (it usually is). You stuck tight to all the inside cones, which forced you wide on the exit...if you'd followed a wider entry out to the end of the first wall, you'd have been set up better to late apex (cross the back) of that exit cone.
Jamie

I was trying to stay floored the whole way out but I just didn't ever find the confidence to do it. Got down to 33.221 with minimal lifting. Sounds like i left more time in that part of the course than I thought. Figured out the turnaround fairly well and was thinking most of my time was lost in the box. Need to suck less I guess. And to get some real tires.