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Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:13 pm
by Loren
So, our Classic Event poll revealed mostly that people like what we're doing with the Classic events. They like a little variety, and they like lots of runs. Cool.

But, enough people want to see a "Classic Pro Championship" that we're looking into ways to make it happen. We got enough feedback from people who like the casual "practice" nature of the Classics and DON'T want it to be serious competition that if we do this, it's going to be an "opt-in" thing. The people who want to take it seriously and run for points will have to opt-in early in the season. And it will be a "serious" competition. We'll make the rules such that there won't be a lot of dropped events, and there won't be a bunch of points awarded if you "win" when there's no competition in your class that day. No "attendance awards" here. If you win the Classic Pro championship, you earned it.

Now, some of the SCCA guys have suggested making it a single "pro class" and using the standard "PAX index" to equalize the drivers. (I'll leave it to the reader to Google that if you don't know what it is) I'm going to tell you right now, we WON'T be doing that. I think the PAX is a cool thing, and IF you're dealing with people who have cars that are a) "the car for the class" and b) well-prepared to the SCCA rules, it's reasonably accurate. But, on the local level, hardly anybody drives a car that is that well-prepared. And FAST has a pretty big number of people who have cars that are prepared with no regard for SCCA classing... and they'd all get screwed to the wall. No, PAX is not for us.

However... a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... I dreamed up something called the Driver Index Class. We ran it for a couple years when I was in Kansas, and it was pretty cool. It's simple, but the reality of how it ends up working is a little complicated. I'll try to explain.

Driver Indexed Class
The whole idea is to create a class where the driver's ability shines above all else. It works similar to the PAX index, but instead of indexing the car, we index the driver. How do we do that? We go back 6 months and look at that driver's results over the past 6 competition events. For each event, we divide the FTD by that driver's time (and we'll probably use street tire FTD, because it's a little more stable than race tire FTD that varies wildly depending on who shows up). So, if the driver *has* FTD, their index would be 1.000. If FTD was 49.000 seconds and our driver drove 50.000 seconds, their index would be .980. We average the most recent 6 events, and that is the Index for that driver.

Here's the kicker... to account for any changes that a driver might make to their car, or epiphanies that driver might have throughout the season, AND to minimize the effect of sandbagging, the index is updated after each event. So, for each event, you'll get a new index that includes your performance from the last event. I'll be honest, it's a fair bit of work to administer this class. But, it's fun, I don't mind doing it for a small group. If you're consistent, you will do well. If you have a bad day, it REALLY shows up.

Some of the things we learned from it were that good drivers are very consistent. And with this format, you're constantly competing against YOURSELF. If you can manage to improve your position relative to the FTD, you "beat" your index for that event, and you'll finish better among the DIC class (go ahead and start the DIC jokes). But, then you've set a new "standard" for yourself, so if you don't do as well next time, you've made your index harder... and you could lower your standing in the next results. The only way to really beat the system is to improve slightly with each and every event, which is why it's not possible to allow novice drivers in this class. By the nature of being a novice and constantly learning and improving, a novice could actually win this class! The other thing is that for it to be at least reasonably accurate, we can't allow car-hopping. A one-time change in car or a single "major modification" to a car will rectify itself over a couple events by the nature of the self-adjusting index. But, shuffling between several cars would never give accurate results.

Quick example:
  • My per-events indexes for the past 6 events are all .9 (neat, huh?), so my current DI is .900
  • For this event, I run a time of 50 seconds. We multiply that by the DI to get my Indexed time of 45.000 seconds. And that's what we'll compare to Indexed time of all of the other driver's in class to determine my finish position for this event.
  • For the next event, my per-event index from this event (FTD/my time, let's say FTD was 44.555... so, 45.555/50=0.911) is averaged with the 5 previous .900's to give my new index of 0.902. As you can see, I "beat my index" for this event by driving a little faster relative to FTD, and because of that, my index for the next event went up a little. If I continue that trend or at least hold to that standard, my index will continue to slowly increase as the older/lower indexes drop out of my average. If I slip up at the next event, then my index will drop slightly.
So, I just thought I'd throw that out there. If any of the people who were interested in "competition" at the Classic events are interested, we could do it. Hell, if enough people wanted to, we could do it for the regular FAST Championship. But, I think it would be a good fit for the Classics.

The coolest thing about it is that it allows a driver in a "slow" car to compete against a driver in a "fast" car without regard to how well either car is prepared relative to the rules. You'll both race "head-to-head" correcting your actual time by your Index factor. The thing people didn't like about it was that to really know how you were doing against your DIC competition (keep laughing, I'll wait), you had to know your current index AND their current index, and do a couple of calculations. Simple solution to that? Just drive your ass off and drive to the best of your ability each and every time and don't worry about it! Of course, with the technology we have today, it would be easy to keep the current indexes published on the website, and for anyone to check them on their phone at any time. So, I think it could work a little better now than it did 15 years ago.

Anybody like the idea of doing a Driver Indexed Class, or do you all think I'm nuts? (I guess the two options are not mutually exclusive)

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:30 pm
by jbrannon7
Sounds a lot like handicapped league bowling. I am in.

Joe

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:02 pm
by BigBlue
Loren wrote:Anybody like the idea of doing a Driver Indexed Class, or do you all think I'm nuts? (I guess the two options are not mutually exclusive)
Yes. And Yes.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:11 pm
by twistedwankel
BigBlue wrote:
Loren wrote:Anybody like the idea of doing a Driver Indexed Class, or do you all think I'm nuts? (I guess the two options are not mutually exclusive)
Yes. And Yes.
What he said. I'm in and think I'm loving it all ready. I saw blind guys bowl well once in a league with a hand rail.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:30 pm
by vertigyn
I like the way the class sounds. So this class would be tied only to classic events?

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:09 pm
by Loren
Yeah, would be Classic events.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:56 am
by Rosko
Much like the guys above, I'm all in when it comes to DIC.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:06 am
by Loren
I see what you did there.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:27 pm
by jmdoc66
So will it help my 7 year old antique car beat up on that new '14 ILE?

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:45 pm
by twistedwankel
jmdoc66 wrote:So will it help my 7 year old antique car beat up on that new '14 ILE?
That's actually funny to think of your car as an "antique". Time flies.

Maybe we'll go halfzies and fix '86 Shamu to the limits of S3? hahahaha More aftermarket support cheaper. 10" rims? 5 bolt discs? 373 ass? Ram air? New heads? Anti roll bars? Cam? Racing seats? Lose AC weight? A good tune? Or just buy some light tubular front end parts? K member? A arms? Headers and dumps? Bolt on frame rails? All S3 legal with discounts. And the list goes on and on. There are NO aftermarket parts available for a 2014 1LE other than "stock" downgrades. Can be done for less than about $1500. Peanuts. Other than Mod Drew Springs I think we could beat him straight up. zoom zoom

Mike is so stimulating with his "old" talk.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:08 pm
by AScoda
So, it's just math. Why not just make everyone in and run the numbers and tell us who is winning?
It's not like anyone is going to try harder than they are now. :dunno:
Or am I missing something?

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:08 pm
by Loren
jmdoc66 wrote:So will it help my 7 year old antique car beat up on that new '14 ILE?
It won't affect how your car does. But, if you are a more consistent driver, you could win.
AScoda wrote:So, it's just math. Why not just make everyone in and run the numbers and tell us who is winning?
Because a lot of people want no part of it.
It's not like anyone is going to try harder than they are now. :dunno:
Or am I missing something?
I think people DO try harder when they're battling for a season championship.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:15 am
by jmdoc66
Funny you mention that Doug.
I have most of those items in a shed and just bought a '87 beater T-top mustang. Hmmm. Not my original intentions, but ya never know.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:22 am
by Loren
twistedwankel wrote:Maybe we'll go halfzies and fix '86 Shamu to the limits of S3? hahahaha More aftermarket support cheaper. 10" rims? 5 bolt discs? 373 ass? Ram air? New heads? Anti roll bars? Cam? Racing seats? Lose AC weight? A good tune? Or just buy some light tubular front end parts? K member? A arms? Headers and dumps? Bolt on frame rails? All S3 legal with discounts.
This is off-topic, but you're way overestimating the allowed modifications in stock.

http://drivefast.org/rules/stock-category/

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:52 pm
by twistedwankel
The last 2 events Shamu index is .894 S3
SCCA PAX .818
The last 4 events Grey8 index is .868 S2
SCCA PAX .821


http://www.site-watcher.com/tools/paxcalc.aspx

As Loren all ready mentioned PAX is a really big difference from his method!!

I think it will work out well for everyone who can keep their car running all year on the same set of tires?

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:08 pm
by Loren
The wildcard really is using FTD as the basis. Depending on who runs in the class, we could potentially make it more accurate to exclude everyone who isn't "locked in" and make our FTD for calculations the FTD *of the drivers in class*. That way, some hotshoe who doesn't normally run with us can't come in and mess with the data.

But, yeah, aside from the math being similar... this is nothing like PAX.

I think I'm counting 8 people interested so far, so we may just have to run with this.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:43 pm
by Loren
Okay, let's talk about how to implement the class. My thoughts are:
  • A significant number of monthly events without a lot of "gaps". (to maintain momentum)
  • No more than one dropped event. (to maintain serious competition)
  • Points awarded based on cars in class that you finished ahead of... maybe something like a point for every car you beat? (bearing in mind that the class is "locked down" after the third event of the season, so new people can't flood the class and mess with the points... the only outside influence on the class points would be the FTD... which will likely be one of us, anyway)
Looking at the schedule, we may need to incorporate one or two regular "FAST Championship" events into the Pro series to avoid gaps of more than a month.

Sep 6 - We could call the casual "season opener" event a Pro event, that would get us started in September.
Oct 4 - There's a Classic in October.
Nov 15 - Due to the Novice School, there won't be a Classic in November, so we could use the November Championship event.
Dec 13 - We could choose to use the December Championship event, or just let December go.

Beyond that isn't scheduled yet, but we should be able to do a Classic each month for Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun and Jul. Maybe plan on 6 of those 7 months just in case. That would give us a total of 9-11 events total. (9 if we drop December and only get 6 of our 2015 dates, 11 if we keep December and get all 7 of our 2015 dates)

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:22 pm
by twistedwankel
Loren wrote:
twistedwankel wrote:Maybe we'll go halfzies and fix '86 Shamu to the limits of S3? hahahaha More aftermarket support cheaper. 10" rims? 5 bolt discs? 373 ass? Ram air? New heads? Anti roll bars? Cam? Racing seats? Lose AC weight? A good tune? Or just buy some light tubular front end parts? K member? A arms? Headers and dumps? Bolt on frame rails? All S3 legal with discounts.
This is off-topic, but you're way overestimating the allowed modifications in stock.

http://drivefast.org/rules/stock-category/
His 87 all ready has the good heads and cam. Which would be an upgrade for 86's. Unfixed seatback racing seats are still legal. I don't think it's possible to "flash" and old style ECM? A good tune is about 14* spark advance and premium gas:) I didn't mention bolt on mods allowed to the rear suspension:)

Note: I have no intention of permanently modifying my stock vert and destroying whatever collectible value it might have. Just sayin' there's nothing stopping others from building to stock class limits of FAST for a T-Shirt. It's part of the fun. I can't justify a new race car with a warrantee at our age.

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:39 pm
by twistedwankel
Loren wrote:Okay, let's talk about how to implement the class. My thoughts are:
  • A significant number of monthly events without a lot of "gaps". (to maintain momentum)
  • No more than one dropped event. (to maintain serious competition)
  • Points awarded based on cars in class that you finished ahead of... maybe something like a point for every car you beat? (bearing in mind that the class is "locked down" after the third event of the season, so new people can't flood the class and mess with the points... the only outside influence on the class points would be the FTD... which will likely be one of us, anyway)
Looking at the schedule, we may need to incorporate one or two regular "FAST Championship" events into the Pro series to avoid gaps of more than a month.

Sep 6 - We could call the casual "season opener" event a Pro event, that would get us started in September.
Oct 4 - There's a Classic in October.
Nov 15 - Due to the Novice School, there won't be a Classic in November, so we could use the November Championship event.
Dec 13 - We could choose to use the December Championship event, or just let December go.

Beyond that isn't scheduled yet, but we should be able to do a Classic each month for Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun and Jul. Maybe plan on 6 of those 7 months just in case. That would give us a total of 9-11 events total. (9 if we drop December and only get 6 of our 2015 dates, 11 if we keep December and get all 7 of our 2015 dates)
I'm guessing I'd only run these Pro events and forget about most of the Regular Season events other than the substitutions. 8-9 events with a 1 race drop is probably doable for me allowing for trips out of state or country a couple times/year for a whole month usually. I'm assuming the 8+ racers will simply run in one Pro Class and have 3 - 6ft trophies at season end. For all we know they all run in 8 different classes normally? For instance if I put my old wheels and nice 300 tires on Shamu and stay consistent in all weather I'd probably do okay against Scott, Loren, Drew or Les wearing speedo's? Now there's an image I want to get out of my mind. :snicker:

I'm also wondering if you will make this a pre-purchase all inclusive deal like was offered this season for regular events? The greater the number of required monthly events the more I'll probably need to drop to do this is all I'm getting at.

Food for thought?

Re: Driver Indexed Class? (for Classic "Pro" series)

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:11 pm
by Loren
We may offer a "season pass" deal. Steve and I haven't really talked about it. Seemed to flop last time, I'm not sure why. I guess people are just afraid of commitment. :dunno: