Da Groj

My friends want to get into autocross and were wondering if you allowed small crossover type of vehicles.

Depends on what it is. If it's "car based" and we don't feel that it's unsafe, we may allow it. We've had a Honda Crosstour run before, it's basically an Accord with a little more ground clearance.

Let us know what the specific car is and if there are any mods to it and we'll let you know.

Thanks for you time Loren. One is a Subaru xv Crosstrek and the other is a Lincoln MKC which is a lowered Ford Escape. The ground clearance is 3/4" more then the Honda Crosstour. I have seen videos of both Auto crossing.

I'll wait for Steve and anyone else to weigh in, but I think I could sign off on both of these. They come with the caveat that unless the owner wants to lower the suspension, we can't let them run on super-grippy tires.

For anyone else who wants to comment, here's what I found:

C&D on the Crosstrek:
http://www.caranddriver.com/subaru/xv-crosstrek

Crosstrek Autocross:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5vrAcp9vWc

C&D on the MKC:
http://www.caranddriver.com/lincoln/mkc

Not a MKC, but a 2013 Ford Escape: (the MKC is supposed to be lower and sportier)
http://youtu.be/StpL4UJ7uGs?t=1m57s

The subaru . The MKC looks iffy. Even in the video the mkc looks way more floaty and I can see someone especially at B-ville potentially getting themselves into trouble in a slalom. Even on less grippy tires that MKC weighs 3800 pounds and It might have trouble with the softer sidewalls of less performance oriented tires. With higher performance tires I'd be more worried of a rollover.

I would say to try the MKC at SPC and see how it looks in person.

I'm of similar mind to Chris -- I think the Scooby will be OK. I think bringing in the MKC would be a bad call. It's relatively short, top-heavy, and softly-sprung. Our courses aren't like the manufacturer's demo course in the video -- get it into a slalom or linked offsets, and I'd be very worried about jacking it over onto the door handles, especially with a novice, even at SPC.

I was actually thinking the same way, but it was more "gut feeling" than based on actual fact. That's why I wanted to throw it out for comment.

Remember, the video is NOT an MKC, it's a Ford Escape. According to what C&D said, the MKC is lower and more stiffly sprung.

The Subi looks alright to me, but I can't tell with the MKC by looking at a helmet cam of an Escape.

Couldn't find info on centers of gravity , so:

Crosstour - wheelbase, height, ground clearance
110, 61.5, 6.2
This is our benchmark, 'cause it's been done and it worked out ok.

Suby - 103, 61.8, 8.7
Shorter wheelbase, much taller off the ground = likely tippy. No thanks.

Lincoln -
105, 65.2, 7.9
Now I couldn't find ground clearance numbers for the Lincoln, so the 7.9 is for the Escape. So the Lincoln might be lower and stiffer? Even if it's an inch lower than the Escape, it's still 4 inches taller than the Crosstour and probably at least half-inch more ground clearance on a shorter wheelbase. I'm gonna say no thanks to that, too.

I agree with above statements that a professional video is probably not comparable to what may happen on one of our courses. And I'll err on the side of caution. Maybe the guy can just rent an actual car for the day?

Thanks for the comparison, Steve. I was going to look at that sort of info this afternoon.

One more similar stat to look at: Track Width
Honda Crosstour = 64.9" / 64.9"
XV Crosstrek = 60" / 60"
MKC = 62.4" / 62.5"

If we compare that to wheelbase, width/length=
Crosstour = .59
XV Crosstrek = .583
MKC = .595

Surprisingly, they all share a similarly proportioned footprint.

Looking at the EPA classifications, the Crosstour, Crosstrek and MKC are all classified as "SUV".

Looking at IIHS classifications, the Crosstour is classified as a "Mid-Sized SUV". The Crosstrek is classified as a "Small Car", and the MKC is not listed. (Ford Escape is classified as a "Small SUV", so MKC should be the same)

NHTSA has rollover crash test ratings 0-5 stars:
Crosstour = 4 stars
Crosstrek = 4 stars
MKC = not listed
Escape = 4 stars currently, 3 stars prior to 2012 (this is surely due to stability control becoming standard/required)

I was able to find SCCA Solo results showing the XV Crosstrek classed in H Street. So, I think the Subaru is probably okay.

The Lincoln... I'm afraid we're going to have to call it what it is: a luxury SUV. No go.

One could argue that it's in the same class as the Crosstour. But, you can look at Crosstour and see a "low profile" Accord body shape. Coupled with its width and wheelbase, we can expect it to behave more like a car. The MKC looks like an SUV, and lacking any evidence to the contrary, we have to assume that it will behave like an SUV.

So, my vote goes: Subaru XV Crosstrek, YES. Lincoln MKC, NO.

Steve and I are split on the Crosstrek. Steve, are you still against that one? If so, I'll always err on the side of caution.

The Lincoln MKC ground clearance is 6.8" from what the dealer said. It would be at SPC they would like to try it out with the stock tires. The video above of the escape is not a pro driver but understand the video is not the best in determining these things. Here is an older 2007 Escape Doing Autocross. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BCidL2L2Ns but its an older model.

I appreciate you guys for taking the time to give feedback.

The way I look at it from a safety point, if there's even a question about possible rollover, than I say no. We don't want to make a rule in the future about these "cars" based on a possible event.

I was getting excited that they are building a 3 wheel car/called motorcycle in TX now.

Can I race one of those next year? Two passenger $6 grand. I think I want one.

I just took a 4500 mile trek across two countries and only saw SUV's and pickups.

2 vettes, 1 miata, 1 Masarati, 60 RV's, 3000 16 wheelers, 40,000 Suv's and pickups.

If you have to ask it's a "turd". Turds roll over in the bowl.

Native wrote: And I'll err on the side of caution.

Loren wrote: If so, I'll always err on the side of caution.

Solar wrote:The way I look at it from a safety point, if there's even a question about possible rollover, than I say no.

twistedwankel wrote:If you have to ask it's a "turd". Turds roll over in the bowl.

"If you have to ask..."
"When in doubt, don't..."

I think the concensus on the Suby is no.