Calling all experienced wrenchers

[friskyflea]

Sooo.. new mounts (OEM Honda, not aftermarket), installed by Tod Byram, so I know they were done right. While sorting out some residual clunking noises with my suspension guys at Advance Performance Tire & Wheels (sound tracked down to an undertorqued axle nut...) 2 of the staff (Honda guys) commented that this looks like way too much movement. I don't get to look at my car this way by myself, but seeing this, all my hairs stood on end... a clear "Danger, Danger Will Robinson!!!" response that I've learned to not ignore, just like I didn't follow the advise to "wait until something breaks" before addressing it regarding the noise - seems to be a universal guy strategy. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwonzif9qcyg3 ... s.mp4?dl=0

Thoughts?


Soraya

[twistedwankel]

Your motor mounts are gone.

You should get some solid mounts? Or get a kit to lock the engine in place? Or buy a chain to hold it back.

Or: "Don't race your daily driver." My byline.

[Native]

Sooo.. new mounts (OEM Honda, not aftermarket), installed by Tod Byram, so I know they were done right.

My first thought was it looks like a lot, so I went and looked my my car - a '15 Civic Si. The engine doesn't move nearly as much. But it's newer and presumably "sportier" so the mounts are probably a bit stiffer. Then I looked at my truck. Granted, it's a V6, but it has 13x,xxx miles, and relatively fresh mounts (probably ~10k miles on them). It moved more than the Civic, but still not as much as yours.

In your video, it looks like an "aborted" start. That'll shake an engine a bit more than a full start. Especially if you give up, and immediately try to recrank it before the internals stop moving. Does it do the same thing if you just start it normally? Does the car drive well - shift smoothly, feel any abnormal bucking when lifting throttle in gear, or stepping back into the throttle? If those transitions are rough, it could be a sign of bad/loose mounts as the motor shifts back and forth on and off throttle.

[twistedwankel]

Modern engine mounts suck. Mine were filled with oil. They leaked out. Need solid mounts for a car you don't care about the cushy ride.
Has absolutely nothing to do with Todd:) You tried to drive my RX8 like a FWD once and wondered why it wouldn't go thru a corner:) But you kept it on the pavement unlike Farm Truck.
Frisky Fleas need a stronger MOD car. Beef it up. (Or buy into the Fastiva.)

Doug

[Native]

I had a mid-90s Maxima with that VQ (sewing-machine-smooth) 3.0 V6 (and a manual trans., thank you very much). It had fluid-filled, electronically adjusted mounts. Didn't need 'em. Over time, they've punched that engine out to 3.7 L and made it all coarse...I guess they were planning ahead with the mounts...

Or buy into the Fastiva

It has solid mounts. Beefy ones, at that. All your worries will disappear...

[friskyflea]

Your motor mounts are gone.

You should get some solid mounts? Or get a kit to lock the engine in place? Or buy a chain to hold it back.

Or: "Don't race your daily driver." My byline.

Doug - wipe your readers.. these are NEW OEM (Honda) mounts - they were just replaced, as stated, by Todd Byram. So no, they are not gone... the ones that went are no longer in the car.

What this video shows is the car lifted off the ground, and the guy in the driver seat has the brake depressed while letting off the clutch, not smoothly, to, I was told, "lug" the engine. Because of the comments from the 2 staff at APTW who eat & breathe Honda (something to the effect of the engine nearly rattling against the firewall), I drove it like a wuss on my way home, so I can't answer Steve's questions. This car drives 45-50 min each way to work, plus 200 mi to Maitland 2-3x month, so unless I am sure experiments are not going to incapacitate it, I'll leave them on the drawing board - there is no budget for another car.

I'll be on I-4 tomorrow, and I'll see what it does as I am sure I will be forced into evasive maneuvers no matter how much defensive driving I do - it is summer and there will be plenty of clueless-lost-inept tourist drivers as I go through Orlando swerving to their amusement park exit from 3 lanes over.

Can't put on stiffer mounts - that would class this car into SP... even locally I would bump into BSP; it's one thing to drive the snot out of a slow car, quite another to volunteer for a massacre.



Soraya

[friskyflea]

You tried to drive my RX8 like a FWD once and wondered why it wouldn't go thru a corner:) But you kept it on the pavement unlike Farm Truck.


Doug

I don't abuse other people's property; mom said that's a no-no. Do be glad I didn't drive it like I drive my truck when I'm in a hurry, late to a show, because we would have plowed the whole infield with a fresh crop of peanut hay.

FF

[twistedwankel]

I still think your front motor mount is gone.
Good luck.

[friskyflea]

I still think your front motor mount is gone.
Good luck.

The consensus seems to be that something wasn't tightened/got loose/lost a bolt

OR... a new part failed.

Don't know if I can get something done about it this week - could only be Thursday after work and don't know either of my 2 shops even has an opening

cars...

[twistedwankel]

Soraya you know I'm always good for a co-drive - only for you. Can you deal with an Englishman AND the Mayor? hahahahaha Would be better if we were French Toast. Right?

Be #119 in the afternoon?

Doug

[Loren]

Do it! The Mayor darkest secret is that he loves fast women.

[Native]

The consensus seems to be that something wasn't tightened/got loose/lost a bolt

OR... a new part failed.

Do you trust the guys at the tire shop, and are you sure the moving isn't normal? I had a tire shop once show me "abnormal" movement in the front suspension to try to sell me new struts.

Let us know how it turns out!

[BrilloHeadBen]

If needed, you're welcome to drive the Festiva on Saturday. It'll probably hold together long enough. I hope.

[twistedwankel]

Doug - wipe your readers.. these are NEW OEM (Honda) mounts - they were just replaced, as stated, by Todd Byram. So no, they are not gone... the ones that went are no longer in the car. What this video shows is the car lifted off the ground, and the guy in the driver seat has the brake depressed while letting off the clutch, not smoothly, to, I was told, "lug" the engine. Because of the comments from the 2 staff at APTW who eat & breathe Honda (something to the effect of the engine nearly rattling against the firewall),

I've never heard of anyone lifting a car in the air and dumping the clutch? Sometimes the bolt breaks and the bushing is fine. The transmission mount new? At least with the drive by wire you don't have to worry about the linkage binding full throttle.
Seriously you can put a chain or solid piece on there to keep it from torqueing so much. I always had one bolted on my old Stangs that I got from Summit. Go to a used car lot and see how much another Fit's engine moves!! Go fire up a new one for that matter since your mounts are new.

[Rawkkrawler]

What they did is normal for testing a failing motor mount, quite shocking how much a motor can actually move with "good" motor mounts under this condition. I'm curious, how many mounts do you have, and how many were replaced? I'm guessing it's like the Festiva where there is one for the trans and one more the motor? I'm used to mrear wheel drive so I'm trying to picture it. To Steve's point, are they simple rubber mounts, or oil filled? We did see a Jetta or GTI at a FAST event that sprung some kind of leak with some type of alien like fluid spewing everywhere. With all of that being said, my guess is the replacement mounts have an issue of some kind. Not sure if it's install error or faulty out of the box. My 2 cents anyway.

[AScoda]

Contact Tod, send him that vid, see what he thinks.

[friskyflea]

I'm giving a shorter version of my Facebook post..

All 4 mounts were replaced, with original Honda parts. Only 1 is oil filled (main motor mount): it is to the right of the engine. Given that everyone was concerned with the front engine mount (front and left location), I looked at it with my digital inspection camera - perfectly normal, and a perfectly stupid one! When I removed the packaging wrap and looked at the moustache shaped arms on it I thought WTF?????? Quite limp compared to the other 3, 2 of which where also round inserts but beefy ones.

So I did ask Tod, and he kindly looked at it late this afternoon, and everything was in place, and none had failed that could be seen by inspection. When I got home, I did more digging, this time zeroing on the front mount. They are notoriously wimpy - here are the important bits of this particular thread

"ok so it's on the front/drivers side on the trans...

here's my thought/concern:

i was thinking about just replacing this one, because it is BY FAR the mushiest mount of the four...

but...

i'm concerned about replacing it with the filled one because it's so far to one side - i'm afraid it'll torque the engine and put more stress on the other mounts and axles...

thoughts?
Reply With Quote
#3
Old 01-10-2012, 09:50 AM
JCrimson
Member
5 Year Member
iTrader: (4)

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,905
I would fill it with window weld for sure! that thing is SLOPPY, even brand new. to remove it, remove the 2 bolts that hold it to the actual chassis, then remove the 1 bolt (i think 1..) that attaches to the tranny.

I would FOR SURE do this without hesitation!
Reply With Quote
#4
Old 01-10-2012, 10:31 AM
apexanimal
Member
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MI
Posts: 1,180
you think it would be safe to do JUST this one?
Reply With Quote
#5
Old 01-10-2012, 10:36 AM
JCrimson
Member
5 Year Member
iTrader: (4)

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by apexanimal View Post
you think it would be safe to do JUST this one?

yeah i think so, If you installed a brand new one, it still sags... those mounts just suck.

window weld is tough but not solid.. I really do think you will be fine. I would for good measure do all of them though."

And for your viewing pleasure:
https://youtu.be/32Y5ZYpM1tQ

I'm gonna let Tod know as well; poor guy looked all vexed thinking he'd slipped somewhere...

Soraya

[friskyflea]

Final note-

THANK YOU for all the comments, and generous offers of racing chariots. **flea feels warm and fuzzy**

Steve, my tire alignment place is Advance Performance Tires & Wheels - the owner talked to me twice on the phone for 20-25 min when I was looking for a second opinion, helping me sort out a sway bar problem, before I even stepped through his door. They are super patient with all my questions, show me things and let me watch if I ask (from a safe distance) and treat little Chispa with the same thoroughness and care that they provide to their more distinguished vehicles. I know them all by their first names. I believe Jamie gets his alignment there, and so do a lot of PCA members that autocross, so they get reports about my antics... They are solidly behind Team Chispa. What I think happened is that they 2 who are Honda fans are used
to the more performance-suited models - I don't think Honda thought anyone driving a Fit would have racing aspirations (until B-spec got developed a few years ago).

[twistedwankel]

I actually saw that video before in a quick search concerning your issue.
Geesus Lady why didn't you just c0-drive my Vette? It has tons of stiffies left in it. 4 mounts on a FIT Honda needs to go back in time.
Thanks for the update. That was interesting. Poor Todd. I'll let him drive my vette to make up.

Doug

[friskyflea]

I actually saw that video before in a quick search concerning your issue.
Geesus Lady why didn't you just c0-drive my Vette?
Doug

I'm not sure how I'd do driving a big, and very fast, barge like that. Al my cars have been petite little things; the trucks handle differently because they are so tall, but I love the quiet rumble when I step on the gas... power with a low center of gravity...??? don't tempt me so.