Oct. 17 and 18 at Brooksville

[Loren]

Your call. Pushing a button on the timer sure seems easier and safer to me.

[Native]

For whoever has it, I need the phone number for the pizza place so I can order the lunches.

Howard, I can take care of lunch for Saturday, if you'd like. Brian K. has Sunday. PM me and let me know and if you had something in mind other than pizza one day and sandwiches the other. Brian and I can coordinate it from there.

[shakedown067]

Of course, that would just be an aid. No guarantees. No crying foul if you don't hear the beep or anything. (you can usually hear the beep from the starting line, anyway, if you listen)

Not us V8 guys. I doubt Tim will hear a thing for sure, oh wait he won't be there Saturday, damn. I'd just set up it up so you can see the car cross the finish and you can go. Certainly sounds like a damn good time. I like the track layouts too. It'll be nice practice before Sunday's points race.

[impalanut]

Covering lunch would be great, I had no particular plan other than the usual. For the relay, we will need someone to monitor the car leaving the line too early anyway, and they can be in the usual spot, so I don't think it will be any more of an issue than usual. The nature of the relay will require a little thought as far as run order within the team, so the drivers will know in advance which chute to use. I envision 8-10 runs, plus a runoff on Saturday, so there will be ample time to get it right. Likely, I will split the run groups so we do half before the break and half after, this will keep the competition alive throughout the day. Also, will allow for changes in the run orders, as well as another group walk through for planning the strategy and helping the newer drivers. With a fairly low turnout, we should have time for plenty of runs, a little instruction, and maybe even a few fun runs after the team competition for some individual times.

[Bone]

Re: the start/finish on Sat, why create a reason for people to complain? just set the teams up, and let each car run and get a time as we normally do...... Then just add the times up for each team. That way, we will know individually if we are getting faster... aka - what works/does not work on the course. Safe, proven, effective. Just like Listerine.

RC

PS - I want to be able to flog my teammates if they are slower than me too.

[Native]

Covering lunch would be great, I had no particular plan other than the usual.

Okey-dokey.

[Charles]

That way, we will know individually if we are getting faster... aka - what works/does not work on the course.
PS - I want to be able to flog my teammates if they are slower than me too.

+1

[shakedown067]

Re: the start/finish on Sat, why create a reason for people to complain? just set the teams up, and let each car run and get a time as we normally do...... Then just add the times up for each team. That way, we will know individually if we are getting faster... aka - what works/does not work on the course. Safe, proven, effective. Just like Listerine.

Isn't that what sunday is for though. Saturday should be fun and team oriented. I like the relay idea.

[Jamie]

There are not a lot of cones, and plenty of space so there shouldn't be a lot of cones hit. This should minimize the number of course workers.

We might be able to do it with only three stations -- six workers on course -- but that's a bare minimum.

The starter will be sending each driver as the previous driver hits the finish line. The starter will also determine if you jump the gun, which will be a cone penalty and not a disqualification. We will probably use two starters so we don't make mistakes.

See if you like this idea: rather than having a starter (or the next driver) eyeball the incoming car, put one of the small red cones in the first car. Stage the second car after the first launches. When the first car crosses the lights and stops, have a third team member run over to the car (we can put him on a point at a safe distance from the finish chute) and take the cone out, run it over to the next car and pitch it in...at which point the next driver takes off. Stage the next team member and repeat. That really eliminates jumping the start -- no cone in the car, take a penalty -- and eliminates the need for a second starter. It adds a bit of precision to finishing -- rather than just blowing through the finish, you want to stop at a point to minimze distance the relay runner has to cover. And it introduces a bit of team coordination to the relay. Should work for four-driver teams...might be a bit tough for three. Have someone who can't run well? A car with no ABS and a lead brake foot? That just influences team strategy in setting up a run order.

[Jeremy]

mini sun.jpg

This is the Sunday course.

Strictly from the standpoint of a novice...
I think there is a possibility that the back straight with it's 19 double gates in a row is going to look like a sea of cones. Might be impossible to read, especially for novices.

I much prefer single cones with pointers rather than gates at Brooksville. For example, take the outsides of some or all of those gates and make them pointers for the apex cones. Much cleaner looking in my opinion, and you will get 100% less off courses and cone hits.

[Jeremy]

Re: the start/finish on Sat, why create a reason for people to complain? just set the teams up, and let each car run and get a time as we normally do...... Then just add the times up for each team. That way, we will know individually if we are getting faster... aka - what works/does not work on the course. Safe, proven, effective. Just like Listerine.

Isn't that what sunday is for though. Saturday should be fun and team oriented. I like the relay idea.

Since we can't have 2 teams running at the same time, I think it would be more fun without the relay. It would actually change the whole strategy of how you would compete.

In a relay with only one team at a time running, I think the strategy would be for everyone to just do nice and tidy clean runs. Anchor legs mean nothing. Kinda boring.

By doing individual runs. We would actually know in between legs which team was leading. You could see how much time needs to be made up, etc. The anchor leg could do a 10/10ths banzai run if time needs to be gained. With a single team relay you won't even know what needs to be done.

I think that is part of the excitement of relay events, certain legs trying to make up time. The relay idea WOULD work great if we could have 2 teams running simultaneously pro solo style, but we can't, and at that point it becomes kind of dull.

[shakedown067]

Yeah, you got me on that one. Nicely put.

[Native]

put one of the small red cones in the first car. Stage the second car after the first launches. When the first car crosses the lights and stops, have a third team member run over to the car (we can put him on a point at a safe distance from the finish chute) and take the cone out, run it over to the next car and pitch it in...at which point the next driver takes off.

Not so sure autocrossing with a loose cone in the car is a good idea...may a vinyl magnet to the outside of the car?

[impalanut]

I have no problem with cones and pointers instead of gates, we can look at it when set up and do whatever looks the easiest. The purpose of a relay is that it is a team event, the individual event is Sunday. Part of the relay is that there is a time involved for the start of the next person, although there is no baton in this case. The only problem with physically putting something into or on the car is that we have to allow time to stop the car, get out, run over, etc. This means that we may be encouraging unsafe procedures. Also, I don't want anyones physical capabilitlies to over ride the driving. Waiting for the car to cross the finish line should be sufficient. The goal is NOT to flog any one individual. I would like to see a way to make the event have more urgency for the runs. Maybe, we can post the leading times prominently as they come up so at least the team that is running know what they have to beat. There will be no reason to hurry the start of each team, so we can wait the minute or so to post the time if it is faster. We will know after a few runs what the approximate individual times are by dividing the total time by the number of team members.

[Jeremy]

The purpose of a relay is that it is a team event

It'll be cool either way. I just wish there was an easy way to get split times, and real time feedback on what needs to be run. Maybe if we had an announcer that could give realtime results, and keep track of split times of your team vs. the team in the lead. They wouldn't be exact, but you could probably get within + or - 1 second.

I also agree that I don't want anyone running around my car as I am about to start or finish.

[nc4me]

Just a friendly reminder that registration closes tomorrow at 10:00 P.M. There's no walk-up registration at Brooksville. Even guests that you want to bring with you, must be added to your registration, there are NO exceptions. Just a friendly reminder to all those new to the club, who are contemplating signing up.

[Bone]

I was just trying to be funny about the flogging. In reality, it would be more like polite encouragement or gentle, politically correct teasing about Pokey Joe's:

a) car
b) driving set-up
c) weight
d) driving skill
e) girlfriend, or lack thereof
f) eyesight
g) drinking habits/drug addiction(s)


In all seriousness, whatever you decide will be fun I'm sure.

[impalanut]

I have been working on the teams for Saturday. I will post the teams with the two seeded members, we will choose the rest on Saturday. I was going to have the choosing sandlot style by the captains, but now I am leaning toward picking names at random by the captains. I would like some feedback as to how people thing we should do it. I am pretty unfamiliar with a lot of people and wouldn't really know who to pick. I also need whoever has the final work sigh up to email it to me so I can work on the work assignments. I think we should be able to cover the Sat course with three work stations and it shouldn't be a problem. The Sunday course will probably require six stations, and it is likely that some people who signed up for work assignments will likely have to work the course as well. I will not select those there for tech & registration since they have to be there so early.

[Jamie]

I also need whoever has the final work sigh up to email it to me so I can work on the work assignments.

I have to go through the last half-dozen entries, but I'll send you the assignments already made this weekend.

The Sunday course will probably require six stations....

Six stations is a stretch, but possible if we run two groups. I can set up the Sunday groups and assignments...one less thing for you to do. I can do Saturday, too, if you know how you're splitting things up.

[impalanut]

If you want to do Sunday that's fine. Sat will have to be assigned by team and then plug the names in Sat morning. It would probably be easier for me to do it. Just send me the sign up list and I will try not to use anyone who has a job. The Sunday course is pretty long and with so few signed up we probably have to do two groups. I think we will need at least 12 people on course, so to have three groups everyone will have to work course. I have no problem with that but it is different than what we usually do. Also, if anyone who signed up for Sat is not coming, let me know as soon as possible so I can rearrange the teams if necessary.

I am planning for 9 teams.

Team 1: Jeremy Damico, Lio Rotondo
Team 197: Howard Sharf, Tommy Palloj
Team 96: Peter Varga, Roel Palloj
Team 40: Charles Stowe, Lubomir Sokol
Team 66: Ron Croft, Jeffrey Miller
Team 87: Andrew Scoda, Shon Sparks
Team 555: Kenny Gardner, Bob Gardelle
Team 31: Jamie Sculerati, Frank Rotondo
Team 11: Loren Williams, Edib Zivalj

The rest of teams will be filled in Sat morning by the teams captains. I tried to seed the teams to keep things as even as possible. These appear to be the 9 fastest drivers of those who are signed up along with novices and slower drivers, and slower cars, based on the results from the last year or so. There are some names I didn't really know but who appear to have faster cars (eg M3) that I didn't want to seed as slower drivers.

The plan is to run a morning session in two groups with 4 or 5 runs per team. The afternoon session will have the faster groups run first and the slower groups run second for another 4 or 5 runs, to allow them to know what they need to make the finals and to prevent fast teams from sandbagging. This will require a shift of work assignments, but since they will be by teams this shouldn't be a problem and can be done in the lunch break.The four teams with the fastest times for their best two runs will qualify for the finals, which will be single elimination and will be handicapped according to the average of the two best times. The fourth seed will run the first seed, the second and third seed will run, and winners in the final. The upper seed will have choice of who runs first. The faster seed will have the difference in the average times added to their time. In other words, for the runoff the winner will be the team that beats their times by the most not necessarily the fastest raw time. This is similar to the singe start pro solo rules. This will keep things more even between teams in the final. The final four runs should take about ten or fifteen minutes and the three slowest teams will work the course, unless there are volunteers who want to work the course for the final.