Endurocross Aug 19

[Loren]

Someone is quickly forgetting that Doug was one of the few unfortunates to have driven in the down pour which started part way through his first timed run. ;-)

Yes, I did forget that! Makes his second run time more impressive... but his consistency is probably purely accidental given the circumstances. He was probably jonesing to check his tire pressures after the 2nd lap!

I still am amazed by how you toss that miata around on those tiny tires... You almost lifted the right rear tire coming around by the flagging station.

I was having a ball on those tires! I think that turn was one of the few that I started figuring out how to really get into (but still not out of) quickly. I ended up doing almost a "scandinavian flick" kind of thing, but not severe enough to break the back end loose, just enough to really SET the left side tires to hook hard right into the near-end turn-around. I never quite found the optimal line or acceleration point out of that turn, though... well, maybe once.

Oh, and I'm totally sore now. Endurocross won in the end.

[twistedwankel]

Yes, I did forget that! Makes his second run time more impressive... but his consistency is probably purely accidental given the circumstances. He was probably jonesing to check his tire pressures after the 2nd lap!

Actually it all balanced out, as since I can't count in circles, I was probably only doing 4 laps the 2nd time.
It really sucks that my tire pressure monitoring system doesn't tell me actual pressures while I drive

Steve saved me about $1300 putting this Enduro on. I priced the cost of doing a high speed weekend at Sebring. Between the membership fee, actual cost/day, requirement of an onboard instructor every run, motel, fuel, tires, paying a cert mechanic to do an inspection, flush brake lines, buy special track brake pads and put them on and off at the track, buy special track insurance incase I total my car AND buy my own lunch (and soda) I suppose. THANKS Steve!!! This was way more fun AND you bought lunch and sodas for us.

[puncturina]

So, when's the next one?

[Loren]

So, when's the next one?

When are you going to volunteer to chair it?

Seriously, though... it's hard to do this format with more than about 40 cars, which is about half of what we normally get. So, it really does have to be a "special event". Not something we're likely to do more than every year or two. (same category as the Duel event, the Gymkhana, school events, etc.)

[twistedwankel]

PS: did anyone hear me scream from inside the porta-potty? A large slimy frog jumped on my hand when I reached for the tp. (I know you're all thinking, thanks for sharing that)

Okay. 'Needles' that was your punishment for making it rain on 4th heat ( The Doug(s) were dead last.) so you could win S1. Doesn't everyone mentally scream at the thought of going into the brown room? No one would admit noticing any noises coming out of there You sure that was a frog?

[Loren]

Hey, as course designer, I'm curious as to how the "options" on this course worked for people?

Who went inside on the far end? Who went outside? I went outside because with the level of grip I had available, I'd have had to slow WAY down to stay inside, and if I blew my braking zone by even a little bit, I'd have been all over that cone wall... going outside gave me more flexibility, decent momentum, and a great exit line into the slalom.

Did anyone go left on the slalom? There was a double-hit for going left this time with the 3rd cone being unfavorably offset by about 18", and the exit gate being optimized for the other direction. Ended up being a pretty fun slalom to drive... at least in my car. (I had to lift in the middle to keep from going too fast for my tires)

And the triple-gate near the end? When I designed it, I was thinking that the right gate would allow for a better entry into the turn-around. But, in practice, to me it felt better to shoot up the middle and just to a hard "yank" to the left immediately before hooking right. That "left" part was necessary because any width you could gain on the entry (effectively trying to get a late-apex on the inside of the entry gate) was a "reward" on the exit.

The last Enduro, I thought the proper line through where the triple-gate was (which wasn't there for that course) was to get a little to the right to set up. I think what may have happened is that the optimal line just might have been between the right and center gates. Which... from an evil course-designer's perspective, is perfect!

Also curious... what did this course teach you, if anything?

[WAFlowers]

I surprised myself by consistently being able to take the inside of the far turn-around without hitting cones! On the triple gate, I always took the middle and had no problem with that. My car handled well through the slaloms although there is a bit more roll than I would like to have. A bigger rear (anti) swaybar is on my short list of upgrades.

The course taught me I wasn't looking ahead; I was driving from apex to apex which would repeatedly cause me to understeer. If you didn't look down course there is no way you'd have the proper line to best carry speed through the turns. I know all that, but ...

My excuse is that I'm WAY out of practice! Despite that, I was the fastest S5 car there.

The course also taught me that I've got the makings of a very good autocross car (in its class), and that the work I've been doing on it over the summer is paying off. The single biggest problem that needs to be worked on is the loose nut behind the wheel!

[WAFlowers]

Finally looked at the results to see how poorly I did. It looks like I should pretend I'm a novice and get some instruction!

[twistedwankel]

Hey, as course designer, I'm curious as to how the "options" on this course worked for people?
Also curious... what did this course teach you, if anything?

Wet or dry with the ambient heat and a water pump that due to poor design (cavitates at 8500rpm and above) I found smooth and steady essential. I did the whole course in 2nd gear so never had to shift although could have for the salome maybe to keep revs down? But that would have required a downshift coming out of the box.

My first dry practice runs I found the outside of the far turn around smooth, late braking, carried alot of smooth speed with a nearly perfect exit for the Salome on the right every time (so I never tried inside wall but Matt said he did successfully). Always late braked in a straight line everywhere (ABS). I'm guessing I had to hit brakes 5 times hard and the rest of the run was cool down or touchup left foot braking. It took a few laps to adapt to the yellow crossover cones and find the "sweet spot" of braking and the correct smooth line thru those saving both tires and brakes!!

I found the 'right' smooth speed in the long slalom and held to it leaving me probably about 55 mph accellerating out the last one hard. 68 is tops for 2nd and never ever came close to hitting that fuel cutoff until the last lap at the very finish. I mostly did the right extreme coming out of the Chicago box and made a nice smooth entry into the return loop which I found alot easier on my tires than the quick jerk thru the center which I saved for the finish only full throttle.

I was really pleased with how capable and consistent my 8 year old original suspension handled in the wet with all electronics off other than the ABS. We started with about 12 gallons in the tank and probably used about 5 gallons leaving me with a little less than 1/2 tank. So we got about 5 miles/gallon which I think is pretty good? Way better than I expected. Go new coils.

I was VERY pleased that the car didn't have any mechanical issues whatsoever. It loved the abuse. Simply had to do 3 minutes of slow loops in the far area to cool new rear brakes and bring engine temp gage back down below center (Guess someday I should get that aftermarket smaller underdrive pulley so the water pump won't cavitate at high rpms? Nah. Then I have to get weird size belts.). Did I push the car to it's limits = I don't think so, not like a one lap event for sure. BUT I think my laptimes were consistently faster staying in my own tire tracks to take advantage of the dry I made the pass before.

**The most mental part was the 2 dry hot laps with increasingly worsening conditions ending in a pretty good downpour for the last 3 laps. Kept me busier than a one armed paper hanger as my old co-worker loved to say. BUT after I got the wipers to stay on it was a real confidence builder on the capabilities of my car with 1/2 worn RS-3's. Sadly when I got home I had to wash the car for the first time in 3-4 months = poor me

[yamaha731]

I tried the outside on the turn around in my first run and the inside on the second . I'd have to say the inside was much fast in my car.

The slalom I never tried the left the right just look quicker.

I tried to always use the center of the option just like a nice strait shot

[Loren]

I tried the outside on the turn around in my first run and the inside on the econd . Id have to say the inside was much fast in my car.

I would expect that in your car. With those tires, you have plenty of grip for the tighter turn, and you have no shortage of power to accelerate out. I'd have had to grab first to dig out of that turn if I'd taken it tight in my car.

I figured someone would end up taking the slalom the wrong way just from being out of shape and in the wrong place at some point. Guess I need to make the "hard entry" a little harder.

[snookwheel]

I stayed on the inside each run. The course was almost identical to the 2010 enduro, except for the minor features Loren pointed out. I took a look at those results and compared them to this years results for the drivers who ran both.

Driver                                    2010 time   /car                                 2012 time /car
J. Buckheim                        280.36 / 350z                                      274.047  / BMW Z4M
L. Williams                           260.09  /  Yaris                                    271.025   /  Miata
M. Sullivan                          278.27  / MS Miata                           264.31   /   Mazda RX8
E. Chang                               281.25   /  350z                                   263.01   /  BMW Z4M
C. Baron                               258.41 / ’90 Mustang                      260.35  /  ’99 Mustang
J. Evans                                271.50 / Miata MX5                         255.062 /  Miata / MX5
J. Swayne                            259.49 / WRX si                                 254.49 / Honda S2000
M. Wheeler                        251.264 / Stalker                               236.122 / Stalker
S. Wheeler                          236.145 / Stalker                               235.076 / Stalker

Most showed solid improvement, of course the cars changed for some.... Mine remained within a second, Mary's clearly about to stomp me! Scott.
 
 

 
 

[yamaha731]

I'm the only one to get slower wow sucks to be me

[Lava Speed 05]

I stayed on the inside each run. The course was almost identical to the 2010 enduro, except for the minor features Loren pointed out. I took a look at those results and compared them to this years results for the drivers who ran both.

Driver 2010 time /car 2012 time /car
M. Sullivan 278.27 / MS Miata 264.31 / Mazda RX8

I was also running old Bridgestone re760s at the last enduro or some other poor performing tire... Which got slippery after a couple laps so the RS-3s Doug runs were a vast improvement. Plus a couple years of autocross experience helps. I believe that first enduro was my fifth autocross event ever.

I ran the outside on my practice and the first four laps of my first run and tried the inside on the fifth lap. The second run I did the inside every time and still was a bit sloppy some of the laps but I improved 5 seconds on the second run. Granted this was my first time driving an Rx-8, other than a test drive a year ago, so I had a bit more confidence during my second run.


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[twistedwankel]

I'm the only one to get slower wow sucks to be me

I saw some rain drops on that camera lens!! Also that one way out of shape exit had to cost alot of time. BUT great save

[snookwheel]

I'm the only one to get slower wow sucks to be me

You weren't the only one.. Looks like the price of used Yaris may be going up! (Hi Loren )

For me the inside of the turnaround looked to be faster, even if it was unsettling, it was a shorter route. Although, I didn't try the outside. As for the options at the finish, I took the center.

What's the plural of Yaris, Yarie?

Scott

[garage west]

Thanks to Li'l Stinker's short gearing, I had to grab third on the way out and the way back.

Grabbed third in the long slalom on the way out. First downshift occured before the station 2 small slalom and I could carry second all the way through the turn around, which I took inside the cone wall every time. It occurs to me that I could have tried to carry third through that small slalom, but I would likely have botched my setup for the turnaround trying to downshift there. Second upshift occured after the first slalom cone (taken to the right every time) on the way back. Downshifted again just before the Chicago box. I had to grab 3rd again coming through the finish.

What I learned-- I could have carried more speed and used less steering input to get through the big crossovers. Probably slowed too much for the Chicago box, as well. I was able to rev-match most of my downshifts, but there were a few times when I couldn't get my foot on the throttle so I just dropped it in gear, chirped the tires and went with it. There was one time when I tapped the brake just before the south turnaround to change the attitude of the car, made me think I need to start practicing left-foot braking.

Dunno what else. It was fun.

[Native]

Steve saved me about $1300 putting this Enduro on. I priced the cost of doing a high speed weekend at Sebring. Between the membership fee, actual cost/day, requirement of an onboard instructor every run, motel, fuel, tires, paying a cert mechanic to do an inspection, flush brake lines, buy special track brake pads and put them on and off at the track, buy special track insurance incase I total my car AND buy my own lunch (and soda) I suppose. THANKS Steve!!! This was way more fun AND you bought lunch and sodas for us.

You're welcome. Wasn't all me though (but I'm sure he read this and knows... ) And yeah, track days can be a little more expensive than autocrossing, fer shur.

Hey, as course designer, I'm curious as to how the "options" on this course worked for people?

Inside lane at the turnaround - worked better the way I drove the gate before it ; right entry in the slalom - uh huh.; right entry at the triple gate - just didn't feel like doing the herky-jerk. Of couse, all that doesn't mean crap coming from a guy who after walking the course and taking a ride-along before driving couldn't get it right (except by accident a couple times...).

[puncturina]

Nice of the course designer to ask for feedback.

Took the inside turn every time. Figured going outside was longer and was going to suck me into going too fast for the turnaround.

Went to the right on the slalom. There was no reason to go left. Since I had already slowed down for the inside turn at the turnaround, it was easy to go right. Maybe if I was carrying more speed having gone outside on the turnaround, it would have been easier to be out of shape and have to go left, as you discussed. Everyone went right while I was courseworking, so I don't think very many people went that route.

Took the middle gate each time. Never even considered the others.

Here's what I learned:

I took a lot of time off between the first and second runs. The first run, I was driving more point to point on the sweepers. Step on the gas, step on the brakes. In the second run, I tried not to brake very much, and maintain speed, lifting to slow. So more Z-shaped line on run 1, more S-shaped on run 2. I guess that must have made most of the difference, other than the usual increase in speed due to repetition that us junior drivers experience.

I could have done the Chicago box faster too. I slowed too much for that I think.

[garage west]

The old MacBook is unhappy, but I'm still trying to upload my video, so everybody can see how it looked. I took the middle gate, too.