Sept 9 - Brooksville

[impalanut]

Overall, I think we did real well. I also don't like the split run groups, but then the people in the last group will wait even longer to run. I don't know where most people worked, but if you are working the course you will see how the course flows. If you are running in the later group you can walk out to see how the others are driving. At the events I go to I try to work early or at least before I drive. There is a long lag time to the first time through but it is worth it to watch others drive. We can't all drive first, work first, and get home by 1:00. Generally the run orders have been varied so some times you work first and someitmes last. If you are not planning to spend the whole day you are kidding yourself. In order for the event to work there are people there by 7:00 and frequently those same people don't leave until 5:00 or later.

[KAILUAZ]

I really enjoyed the course, lots of room for the land ship!
You guys do a great job no matter what run groups you have. Its nice that everyone keeps their cool and keeps it a family environment.
Thanks again, had a great time!

[Charles]

Just wanted to say "THANKS" to everyone. This was my first fast event but will not be my last!

Glad to hear it!

Hope to see you guys back out in November....... usually the course is easier to follow....... yesterday was really difficult for a first timer.....


I think a split morning and afternoon session is OK with 2 run groups..... not with 3.........

[Anonymous]

I feel compelled to post, not that you guys need another opinion in the pot, but still to say that this was my first autox and I had zero difficulty navigating the course. Hell I've only been driving my car for a little over 4 months. Lauren rode with me my first run and he can vouch that I made it through fine.
+1 for impalanut's sentiments.
My drive to the event was close to 2 hours and I signed up for cleanup duty. Cowboy up a little guys

[Loren]

That's what I like about autocross. There's always at least a handful of those "young and enthusiastic" types around to take the place of us "old and cynical" types who have lost most of our enthusiasm!

Rock on, Jake!

[kickslop]

Re: Garbage Cans

Great idea in theory. My 2 cents on the topic.

* The trailer is full enough.

* Bags leak. Garbage reeks. Ants suck.

* A garbage can will fill in 2 hours. We have 4-5 huge bags of trash at the end of every event. Who's volunteering to empty 2 garbage cans and put a new bag in them both every 2-3 hours? Nobody. We don't need anymore chores.

The problem isn't a lack of place to put trash.

The problem is lazy people and "unconscious" people. And in very small numbers, flat out disgusting people who pointedly litter by seeing and leaving a PILE of garbage near their pit area as they pull out.

I've been to 20 autocrosses and never left a my drink anywhere. Not in the grid, not near the trailer, and not near my pit area. It's in my hand, near my pit stuff placed so it won't blow away, or it's in my glove box.

And I've not seen a single car, ever, lacking a place to safely wedge or store a water bottle during a run. Find me one you think matches that and I'll show you the place.

I'd like to point out that our last SPC event was a TOTAL MESS by the end too. The SPECTATORS who were behind the guard rail to the right of the main bench area left almost ALL of their trash. It was a total sty.

So sick of lazy people and those who empower them by catering to their laziness.

[Native]

Impalanut - bang on accurate!

3d, Kailauz, JustJake - great points made, and great feedback - thanks for the contributions! Never fear to throw another opinion in the pot.

I'm not wild about the garbage can idea, but I'd try putting a weighted bag out on the ground near the grid - with a good poke at the drivers' meeting, I bet folks would use it. Keeping an eye on it would become part of the duties of "post-event tear-down and clean-up" workers - they are the ones who would end up picking it all up at the end of the day anyway.

edit: Kickslop, it's time to repost your theory about the 3 personality types!

[Jamie]

This is the second time in a row where three run groups were used doing 2 run heats each. It doesn't work. Please stop doing it.

I'm only quoting Brian's because it's first. I've been doing the run/work groups, and the event chairs so far have accepted my recommendation to run split groups in the hotter weather...so I'll happily take the heat (literally...). My position: I consider keeping workers on course more than 60 minutes in more than 90 degrees a safety issue. Standing around in the paddock, where you're able to sit down or find a little shade, is not the same as working out on course.

We can limit exposure during the hotter months by reducing the total number of runs. We can reduce the number of competition runs, break, and see how many want to stick around for fun runs. If the event chair decides we're going to max out runs and leave workers out for the duration regardless, I'll cheerfully build all the registration materials, but for my own good conscience, that's the end of the event for me. I'll come out and run during the cooler months.

[Solar]

. it was kind of frustrating watching people that drove not working. it's not like your asking alot out of everyone.

Who was doing this? I thought everyone that drove had a work assignment? My friend and I had to leave before our 2nd run (group 3) but stayed to work the 2nd run for the first group. In hindsight we should've stayed for our 2nd runs instead of getting back home in time to watch the Bucs stink it up in Seattle.

I rode the course 2 times (thanks Jamie and Steve) before I drove it and it helped me out a lot. I thought the course flowed pretty well, the return after the cross over seemed like a "sea of cones" but once you found your way it was pretty easy to follow. For some reason my runs got worse instead of better, I think my mind was else where Sunday, I just wasn't "feeling it". Like was mentioned earlier, being in the last run group and having to wait until after lunch was finished made it a bit more difficult.

I think it should be manditory that novices ride the course with someone before they drive it. Everyone here knows that walking the cousre is much easier than driving it when cones are coming at you pretty fast.

[Alizarin]

Jamie, I think there are valid points on both sides of the argument.

Either you're standing out on the runway, or you're standing around in grid, around the trailer, sitting by your car, etc. Not everybody has a canopy to sit under out there.

My suggestion would be to, if for example we're doing 8 runs, send a car around with a cooler full of water after the 4th run, or 5th. Get those workers replenished, make sure they have water.

I think it all just boils down to how many people are there, and how fast we can get workers out. Maybe part of it is the "If you just ran you're working" part of the schedule. Maybe we need to rearrange the work schedule for 3 or more heats so that you have one "empty" heat between your work and run (or vice-versa). We can then call for the next set of workers while the current group is finishing up their runs, and get them assigned and ready. That would at least cut out some of the change-over time.

[kickslop]

The concept of shade is a joke at Brooksville. Almost everybody spends an overwhelming majority of the day in direct sunlight.

Course working is no different than what the majority of entrants are doing already. Standing in the sun.

It's Florida.
It's summer.
It's an autocross.
There's free ice cold water.
Drink it.
Put some on your head and neck every 30 minutes out there.
If you can't hack 90 minutes of standing, stay at home.

Love,
Jeff

[Anonymous]

If you can't hack 90 minutes of standing, stay at home.

Not everyone is in peak physical condition, such as yourself, and not all stations are just standing around.

Safety first. Getting a extra run or "not breaking your rhythm" by doing 8 runs in a row are not even close to important to me. Those seem to be the only 2 benefits of not splitting run groups. On the other hand split run groups have a ton of benefits, if you know how to take advantage of them.

[kickslop]

I really don't care either way. I just object to the "safety reasoning"

Tell ya what, I'll bring my under-tongue thermometer and IR temp gun next time.

We'll see how hot I am after walking all the way out there.
Then after getting some cones in the first 15 minutes.
Then after 30 minutes.
Then after 45 minutes.

Surely my brain will be boiling by 45 minutes, and only then, right?

Riiiiight.

It's a COMFORT ISSUE.

People bust their asses in this sun ON ROOFTOPS all day long, every day of the week, all summer long, with proper hydration.

You guys are too "funny" for me sometimes.

[AScoda]

This is only an issue for 2 or 3 events in the summer. This one being the last.
If we run an extra run group with less cars in each group, wouldn't it still keep the worker time lower and still take less overall time due to less changeover time?

Re: workers- seems the problem was that some people that were supposed to work the third group volunteered to work first, and figured that meant they didn't have to work their assigned work group. I think it was merely a novice issue.

[AScoda]

Another thought- We can probably pick up six umbrellas for the worker stations for cheap at a dollar store or Big Lots.
Or better yet, some of those hats with the umbrella attached to it!

Umbrella hats show that we care.

[Loren]

There are LOTS of ways we could handle run/work groups, I'm going to try to toss out some ideas for folks to chew on...

Back when I started autocrossing around '95, the club I ran with used strictly 10-car groups. Their events were small at the time, 40-50 drivers, occasionally close to 60. (similar to where we are now) They ran groups of 10, and if there were a few extras that weren't enough to run separate, they'd expand the last group or two to fit them in. Somehow, they made this work. I think what they did was had the "regular workers" work the course as a work assignment, and had a core group of volunteers who did things like timing, announcing and grid. (not that you need much grid with only 10 cars) Workers usually went out in pairs, but it wasn't uncommon for an experienced worker to work a corner solo. So... 10 car heats that lasted for 45-60 minutes and netted 4-6 runs. (and 4 was all that anyone ever "expected") Pros of this method are shorter work periods. Biggest con is when you have more than about 40 drivers, you end up with too many groups, too many worker changes, too much wasted time.

My preference, as an organizer, is to run larger groups for a longer period of time. Ideally, you want to do 4 groups so that nobody has to work immediately after driving, or drive immediately after working. This speeds up the group changes A LOT because the next group can be called a few minutes early and they can be READY instead of having to wander in from out on course, find a bottle of water, go take a leak, go find their car and then get to the grid. It takes about 48 cars minimum to fill out 4 groups, and it takes some worker wrangling and people who are willing to volunteer to work "extra shifts" when needed to make it work.

All of this babble aside, one idea I would like to strongly suggest is that anytime we have run groups that last for more than about an hour and 15 minutes, we should stop half-way through that group and run a vehicle around to all the worker stations with water. And check on all the workers while we're cruising around, make sure nobody's dying out there and that they're good for another hour or so. This will take a maximum of about 10 minutes, but it could be a good alternative to running the split groups that we ran for most of this summer.

[rippin mazda]

The Brooksville course from a miata point of view:

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~rbroderi/MOV00818.MPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Alizarin]

Disclaimer: Video may contain naughty language.

[rippin mazda]

This is the video with the questionable language:

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~rbroderi/MOV00823.MPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[kickslop]

PS: The live timing readout was awesome to have. Did we buy that?