Foxbody Suspension

[ExecutiveHydra]

Some of you may know I recently picked up a 1989 5.0 Mustang to start autocrossing, as I have been beating on my 2011 pretty bad. The 89 has a 25 year old suspension and is in need of shocks, struts, springs, bushings you name it, its old and worn out. I like the challenge of M2, so I plan on staying in that class. My question is between these two suspension kits:

http://www.stage3motorsports.com/351068 ... n-Kit.html
http://www.stage3motorsports.com/E41035 ... pe%29.html

Which is more beneficial to this sport in that car, and why?

Thanks!

[AScoda]

Home run:
http://www.griggsracing.com/product_inf ... cts_id=513
Triple:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/1987- ... P1031.aspx
Double:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/1987- ... -P968.aspx
Single:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/1987- ... -P194.aspx
Your pro kit choice is probably a bunt single.
Your sport kit, probably a fielder's choice. You're on base, but it's not a hit.

It's probably so bad that anything will be a nice improvement. Do not be too concerned with lowering or appearance. Lowering mucks with the roll center in front and rear, and angers the gremlins that Ford used to keep an eye on things. Lowering is fine to a point, then just bad.
No idea what the spring rates are on those kits, but since they are basically for replacing the stock components, they are probably matched fine front to rear. The sway bars look nice.

You could also do shocks and the swaybars, replace old bushings, leave the stock springs and duke it out with Alex and Jim in the stock class.

[jmdoc66]

After owning a couple foxes with pro-kits, I'd suggest coil overs on the front. You can adjust the ride height or leave it close to stock height as Drew suggested. The car will ride a ton better, and corner just as well if not better. Your fillings will thank you.
I've also had rear coil overs but didn't notice as much as a difference with the ride. 350/200 is what I used for spring rates.

As a note....The cars I owned with the pro-kits were all in Nebraska where the roads are horrendous compared to Florida roads.

If you can find it, Mustang performance handbook #2 explains a lot of the fox body's short comings.

If you decide to go to 5 lug, let me know, I have some of the parts cheap.

Mike

[Solar]

If you don't have them already, the first thing to get is sub frame connectors, Fox body's twist a lot. Get the welded in type over the bolt in type. Bolt in use the seat mounts underneath as attachment points, and I've seen them pull through the floor.

[Shifterracer]

Hey mike, what parts do u have for a 5 lug conversion? I need some stuff for my 91. Looking to do a full 5 lung/disc conversion.

[ExecutiveHydra]

Currently this car already has the full 5 lug conversion as well as welded in Sub-Frame connectors. As I go through it I am finding more and more goodies with it, and more and more issues. It needs an entire suspension overhaul, and Drew is swinging for the fences with those $1,000+ kits :O. For now maybe I'll just piece some stuff together and go with front coil-overs and do bushings and such. The car rides like a cheap carnival ride the rear is so bad . Thanks for all the help guys!

[AScoda]

I'm sure all of your bushings are toast.
Put all the poly bushings that you want in the front end, but NOT the back. The back bushings need to twist and rotate. Poly causes bind. Replace uppers with stock. Replace lowers with these:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Heavy ... -P498.aspx
Or if you want to do it the cheaper, harder way, you can do poly on the axle end of the lowers and stock on the chassis end.
A lot of good info here:
http://www.hdrmedia.com/Mustang/index.htm

[Loren]

Pro-tip: Listen to Drew.

[Solar]

Pro-tip: Listen to Drew.

+2

[twistedwankel]

You would have been so far ahead to just go halvzies with me on Ed's "finished" Red Stang (or buy it outright) from another thread.

Oh well. Guess trailer queens rule this year.

Oh.... the welded subframe connectors definately put you immediately in Mod so there's no goin' back. You can't play for awhile in S3 to build slowly (But I wouldn't complain if you did.). Don't forget to blast off all the clearcoat to save weight.

AND....even if I made Shamu a clone of Drew's freakin' mustang it wouldn't be as fast without freakin' Drew driving it!! He and Loren schooled me on that recently

Lots of good advice from the master.

Hope it ends up as fast as your '11 V6 auto which was a blast to drive even Stock.

[ExecutiveHydra]

I've got a lot to think about. Realistically, this car is going to be much harder to build up than the 2011. But we'll see what kind of trouble I can get into with it.

[blacksheep-1]

as Drew has already mentioned stiffening up the rear of the "triangulated 4 link" is a loser as nuts as it sounds, back in the day I soaked my upper control arm bushings in kerosene to make them even more pliable since they both locate the diff front to rear and side to side, adding stiffer ones just results in snap oversteer on corner exit. The addition of a panhard bar makes it even worse. the only way to fix it is expensive..a torque arm or watts link......

[Shifterracer]

think it would be better to just do an IRS swap? I would guess the cost would be about equal.

[twistedwankel]

think it would be better to just do an IRS swap? I would guess the cost would be about equal.

OR he could just try and tame Shamu

[blacksheep-1]

think it would be better to just do an IRS swap? I would guess the cost would be about equal.

03-04 termi IRS are going for 1500 and more these days.

[ExecutiveHydra]

Fox is done, time for fun. The only thing on it right now moving me into a mod class in Sub-frame Connectors. Can I petition to run in a stock class with it? :D. I put stock parts into for meow until I can decide what I want to do with it. Rebuilt the entire trans, rebuilt the suspension (all stock and surprisingly the bushing were all good, must of just been replaced). All those in favor say I!

[twistedwankel]

Fox is done, time for fun. The only thing on it right now moving me into a mod class in Sub-frame Connectors. Can I petition to run in a stock class with it? :D. I put stock parts into for meow until I can decide what I want to do with it. Rebuilt the entire trans, rebuilt the suspension (all stock and surprisingly the bushing were all good, must of just been replaced). All those in favor say I!

Paul,

The last time l looked we don't have a "Protest Committee" for Mustangs in S3. We do have a "geesus committee" tho' if you show up with a shithouse and win against "new shithouses".

You show up in your Pony and we will all be happy to hand you your "buttox" and your "lunch" on a platter You don't want to know about the stiffy we all have for you.

I think I speak for all of us: "Come on down". if you beat us all I have a hacksaw for your "welded" subframe connectors. (Bolted and there would be no conversation and I fail to see the difference?)

Doug

[blacksheep-1]

FWIW I have a already explored the nether regions of the rule book with mustangs and once a welder is used the car is a mod. I agree the mustangs desperately needs the support but then people like me would want to exploit that. The rules here are fair and easily tech'd I do understand that bolt in subframe connectors are next to useless but that's the way it is here. FWIW I used Ford part number bolt in subframe connectors back in the NASA days of the club.

[Loren]

People have been begging for "exceptions" Fox body subframe connectors for as long as I've been autocrossing... which is about 19 years.

And the deal is always the same. How do you justify allowing an exception for just one car? Most cars have some sort of issue that can be solved by doing something that might not be allowed in the rules.

FAST rules were designed to be as simple as we could get away with. We allow a lot more mods in stock class than most clubs do, but we draw a few simple lines... one of which is "bolt on" modifications only. Welded on parts aren't bolt-on.

Even in our Mod classes, we didn't want things to get out of control with welded in cages and braces, and full tube-frame cars that people with the skills and too much time on their hands would create if we let them. We set the limit at "bolt on" mods there, too, with the explicit exception of minor cutting and welding for engine swaps.

If I were going to make an exception, it would be for the Mod classes. A little Googling indicates that SCCA finally allowed welded subframe connectors in Street Prepared and Street Mod a few years ago. (don't know how I didn't hear about that) But, only bolt-in for Street Touring, and not at all in Stock.

I'd be more inclined to entertain a suggested rule change than an "exception". I don't like exceptions.

[twistedwankel]

Paul,

Well there you have it. No one in S3 seems to care (yet) but rules are rules for a reason like Loren pointed out. Guess some people will do anything for a sticker!! Or a t shirt!! Oh my.

You could install the stock convertible front stock x brace and perhaps the convertible rear box which is stronger and bolts right in.

I haven't considered any frame rails seriously yet as my engine is totally stock with only 200HP @ flywheel and my car is 28 years old with no sign of cracking floor pans yet.

There is a full length expensive set that bolts into the frame anchors directly from box to box including seats that would be FAST legal but would add weight too.

Anyhow I commend you your honesty in stating it up front. We definately need an "honesty" merit sticker at awards.

Doug