June 28 - FAST Classic @ Brooksville

[Solar]

My only clean run was deliberately clean.

This is a problem. Not just you, everyone does it. There's something about a non-points "practice event" where you get lots of runs that makes people just not worry about hitting some cones. "Oh, I've got more runs to clean it up."

Can't speak for anyone else, and my comments don't carry much weight here, but I don't go to any type of non points event thinking I can drive loose and cream cones at my leisure, then just tighten up and start driving clean. I think the biggest issue was the course looked and felt faster than it was. The slaloms were tough, the lane change area was tight, the exit on the return was tricky, and the left option was tight. My issues were in the slaloms, but I got through the rest if the course okay, except once where I got a cone exiting the return.

I'm sure others got through the slalom okay, but had issues elsewhere, just depends on the persons driving level and style.

I don't think people should be penalized for hitting 6 or more cones unless they're driving like complete buffoons and being dangerous. Hitting cones is part of autocross, and if many cones are being hit throughout the day, then put more people out there to shag cones, and if that's not an option, then make adjustments to the course as the day goes on. Not going to be popular for the drivers in the earlier groups, but there's not much more you can do. I hit 6 cones yesterday, but also had 4 clean runs, if you penalize drivers that are trying, but having a bad day, that just doesn't seem to be a good solution.

[jbrannon7]

My only clean run was deliberately clean.

Joe

I don't want people to take that statement the wrong way. I wasn't driving with disregard to cones and workers. I was driving to be fast, as I said I was surprised a couple times by cone calls on what I thought were clean runs. I did one run where I made it a point to driver cautiously enough to know that when I looked at the timing board there would not be any "surprise" cone calls. If this had been a points event I would have driven it the same way.

Edit

After a little more thought, I think the Classic events are going to be challenging in a couple ways. Some times they fill up, but yesterday we had 38 drivers. When you take away the workers that do setup, registration, tech and a few other duties you may have 30 workers left for the 3 run groups. Then take 1 for starter, 2 for grid and 2 for timing that just leaves 5 to work the course, and some of us are old and don't run so good. So maybe if less that 45 show up we only have 2 run groups? Then we would have 10 people or more out on course, but they would be out there longer if we wanted 8 runs. Even with just 6 runs they would be out there for a while. Would people be happy paying extra for a classic event and just get 6 runs? You do get free lunch. Maybe when we have a small driver pool of less that 45 we use the 2 run group format and get 5 runs before lunch and 3 after, that would use a little more time during worker change but it would allow more workers to cover the course and still get lots of runs.

[Native]

I don't think people should be penalized for hitting 6 or more cones unless they're driving like complete buffoons and being dangerous. Hitting cones is part of autocross...

I was going to say this.

The penalty for hitting cones as part of an effortful autocross run is 2 seconds per cone added to your time.
I wasn't there, but knowing the crowd I seriously doubt that anyone was out there just screwing around and plowing cones for fun. And if someone is, that individual needs a good talking-to (as has occurred in the past).

[jmdoc66]

As a relief 'station 3' worker during the third run group, I can tell you 1/3 of the runs hit a cone in the lane changing section, 1/3 of the runs wiggled a cone, and 1/3 of the runs didn't touch a cone. I'd say we were about 2 workers short out on course.

As a member of the 'fat car' group, I can tell you the course was rather tight.

Not sure I like the cone count penalty. I never hit a cone on purpose, and with the exception of this event, I haven't hit many cones this year. I was starting to wonder if I was getting that good, or if I was not driving close enough to cones. I picked the latter.
I may have made up for my 'cone count' this event though.

[Loren]

Okay. Point taken, all. No cone limit.

[AScoda]

Re: cone limit.
It doesn't really matter to me, as I don't ever hit many cones. That's not tooting my own horn, I just err on the cautious side, since my car's not exactly...precise. Like a sledgehammer in a scalpel fight.
But, this is really the only time I can remember so many cones hit, so I would call it an anomaly. Not sure the rule is necessary. It will likely only affect the person (Ron) that really screws up and takes out an entire cone wall (Ron). I don't think that goof should forfeit the rest of their runs.

[AScoda]

Okay. Point taken, all. No cone limit.

Way to make my post pointless, Loren.

[BigBlue]

Re: cone limit.
...It will likely only affect the person (Ron) that really screws up and takes out an entire cone wall (Ron). I don't think that goof should forfeit the rest of their runs.

Hey now, I only hit one cone. I'm one of the good guys at this event.

(Seriously, you wipe out one wall of 12 or 15 or 20 or so cones, and some funny guy happens to make a video. You never live that down.)

[Jamie]

Yesterday may have just been that perfect storm of complex cone wall course, oppressive FL summer heat, many runs, and few course workers.

I think Ben (and others) called this right. Looking at yesterday's results, a few people had major cone problems. A lot of people nicked one or two consistently. Considering this was a much different sort of course than we normally see at FAST events (or for that matter, most events in the Tampa area), that shouldn't be a surprise.

From the starter's position in the 3d group, what I saw was spread about the course (based on who was running for what). The offset cone in the slalom. Maybe another cone further up the slalom, or one in the lane changes. One of the cones across from the lane changes. And often one down in the option before the finish. That was also part of the difficulty for the workers -- even if it was just one or two per car per run, no one hit the same combination twice in a row, so the spread kept them running.

I think Joe's correct: we need to adequately cover the course, and everything else -- run groups and number of runs -- falls out from there.

[Loren]

To whomever suggested it. I did consider doing this as a 2-group event, especially before the entry count exceeded about 32. Once we hit 40, a 3-group event (about 13 cars per group) seemed like the way to go.

What I don't like about doing it as a 2-group event is that it ends up "feeling" like our split event format. You're either running or your working. No time to hang out, ride with other people, etc. 3-groups is my preference for a Classic.

I think one error that I made was this: We did some shorter courses at earlier Classic events, and got away with 4 worker stations. This was a full-length course (with some tricky elements, as noted), and I tried to stick with 4 worker stations. We really need 6. Three on each side. That would have made working a lot easier this time around. And we ALMOST had enough workers to do it. We had 5 or 6 workers assigned to each group.

Also, just for those who didn't notice, we only have one grid worker at Classic events and try to do everything with as few people as we can. I could have pulled 3-4 people who were assigned to teardown and had them work a course assignment. But, I know everyone is tired at the end of a hot day of autocross, so I try to keep a few people in reserve for packing up.

Anyway... it sounds like everyone enjoyed the course in spite of the cone count. And I think everyone understands that the only way to GET that kind of course is to have those cones there where you "could" hit them. If the cones weren't there, you could take a much more generous line... and then you end up with (as Jamie said) a "sweeper" course. Which is fun, but very different from this course.

So, I guess when I throw a course like this at you, I'll make it a point to mention at the driver's meeting that it IS a tight course, and please try to drive it carefully and not hit too many cones. AND also make sure we have enough worker stations set up where needed.

[Jamie]

Anyway... it sounds like everyone enjoyed the course in spite of the cone count.

Absolutely! We need more courses like this -- people won't learn to drive them (or stay practiced at driving them) otherwise. And they're fun!

For the summer months, we might consider doing a mid-group water run...although we announce it, few people really load up on the water. And "highly recommend" people without hats take an umbrella with them. It amazes me how many people insist on grabbing an orange vest, but neglect protection from the sun.

[Loren]

We did a water run mid-way through the first group. And we called to ask if anyone needed water during the 2nd group. I don't remember the 3rd, other than someone running out to pick up Gerry.

In addition to wearing a hat, it might also be good to suggest NOT wearing jeans to an autocross in the middle of summer. And, of course, don't forget your sunscreen.

This has been a public service announcement.

[BrilloHeadBen]

A water run was made for the 3rd group as well. Personally I took 5 or 6 bottles of water in a bag out there with me. Perhaps we should have a few bags on hand for that.

[twistedwankel]

Agreed.

You are all on the same page.

So now we can do the same course again?

Jamie thinks he can get a 47 out of Grey8 and so does Drew.

Loren needs two more runs so do we vote for he and Drew to do the 3 runs will give us the shits from laughing?

"Mr. Clean" Chuck say no problem with a 49. He'll still win.

"Spinner Matt" has his act together so no more twirly's and he's golden for first.

The only sleepers I see are Steve and Joe Brannen. Hmmmm?

If they show they will go toe to toe.

My wife is coming and hopefullly "Ron Tech" will show so we have a 1/2 ton of riders like a court case for the Bump Stops

Move on to July 12rh please.

The Mayor

[Spin Out]

Loved the course, but it was tight in sections.
I tried the right hand part of the option one time, and it was just not for me.

Course design can be a huge factor when it comes to downed cones. We had nine runs with roughly 65 drivers on my last course at St. Pete and I only saw two cones go down all day. I could not believe it. In hind sight it turned out that most of the cones you needed to be close to were to the opposite side of the momentum of the car. I.E.)You had to work to get near the pivotal cone. The lack of downed cones is probably what allowed the 9 runs.

Fricken Drew and his Freakin Mustang bested me after I left. Stupid Mustangs.

[BrandLoyal]

Another great event. The heat caused me to make a few dumb mistakes, Setting the gopro to pic mode. So I have nice stills of my sweaty face at the start and end of each run.... no video. I also drove around with over inflated tires....

I am fairly certain I hit more than 3 cones, I was pretty exhausted after just doing tear down. I can imagine how those who pulled course work felt. Thank to you hard working cone shaggers.

[Rosko]

Great event! Again, thank you to all for the effort in that oppressive Summer heat. It still amazes me every year when it starts hitting full force.

It was a good tricky course. It seems like every now and then there is a course where you need to focus 100% to get a clean run, and this was one of them.

There was a lot of speed going into the slaloms, so it was tough to get the braking right. Always either too fast or too slow.

The third cone into the slalom was offset in your favor if you entered left. It was easy for you to let that easy cone 'get into your head', and I think it did for many.

The lane change was so fast and awesome, it was easy to get seduced by it. It made you forget to lift or brake a bit.

And then there was that left option near the finish. Again, you had tons of speed you had to give up to get past that properly.

So there was a theme. This course was about braking JUST ENOUGH to get it right, and that's not easy.

[Loren]

Well said, Chuck!

[jmdoc66]

I would like to say, and I'm not kissing butt, I think the event was right in line with the other classic events. Great! and well worth the sweat and money.

The heat played a major factor.
The young man I replaced during the third run had jeans on. I heard he was allergic to grass. So he really didn't have a choice. He also stated he was 'ok', but could use some help at his station. I think people thought he was suffering a heat injury and needed to come in.

Getting yourself ready a couple days prior to an event is just as important as getting your car ready prior to an event. This means drinking more water than normal a few days prior to the event.

[BrandLoyal]

Getting yourself ready a couple days prior to an event is just as important as getting your car ready prior to an event. This means drinking more water than normal a few days prior to the event.

Good point!! I was behind in hydrating beginning the day and by then it doesn't matter how much water you drink it's to late.
I'm in for the next Classic and I'll skip the morning coffee and grab a few bottles of water for the drive.