New Stock Class Listings for 2014-15

[twistedwankel]

Make Model Idenitifiers Drive Year SCCA Class FAST Class Change for 2014

Unclassified All Exotic Cars Limited Production N/A M0 Added

In our modern age where a minimal run of cars is probably 5000-10000? What constitutes a "limited production" car?

I have never seen a Boss 302 other than the showroom floor. I assume the Seca edition is stripped for racing and sold only to teams?

New Z28 is about $80k costing alot more than a vette. Is that Limited?

How many Lotus Evora's are imported yearly? Arial Atoms? Alfa's? Where will we put the quick hybrids and electrics?

Because FAST is about fun I think most "Limited Production" performance cars should probably get dumped in MO. They aren't readily available to the general public and there's not alot of racing performance data available either. For the most part they say like a Mercedes: "I've got more money than you."

To which I'd say: "Maybe I just choose to spend more wisely?"

[Loren]

If the issue ever comes up and someone isn't sure if their car is "limited production" or not, I'll defer to SCCA's definition. On that day... I'll look it up! (I believe it's either 1,000 or 1,500)

[Jeremy]

Why don't you put FS and CS back together to make up for the loss of the NB's?

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From the last event...
s2 would go from 7 to 11.
s3 is gone.
s4 goes from 13 to 17.

I just think it's really odd to make an exception for 1 chassis of 1 model.
But I know you are really adamant that the NA will never be competitive with the NB and must be protected like a manatee.

[Loren]

Bear in mind that we didn't put this up for debate. I'm merely answering your question as to "why don't we".

Steve and I analyzed the most recent four points events worth of results at that time (back in March) and came up with this:

Avg cars per class (using the revised FAST classes):
S1 - 11
S2 - 8
S3 - 11
S4 - 13
S5 - 4

Avg cars of a model in stock (greater than 1):
NB Miata - 6.5 (formerly S2, now S4)
NA Miata - 6.5 (1.5 being 90-93 models) (S4)
S2000 - 5.25 (S1)
Mustang - 4.75 (S3)
Various S5 cars - 3.5
BMW Z4 - 3.25 (S1)
350/370Z - 1.5 (S2)
NC Miata - 1.5 (S2)
Camaro - 1.5 (S3)
BMW 3-series - 1.5 (formerly S4, now S3)
BRZ/FR-S combined - 1.75 (S2)

Conclusions:
SCCA's combining of NA/NB Miatas in our S4 class gives us pretty much a "Miata class" with a dozen Miatas in it, and half them (the NA's) with little chance of being competitive.

Our S1 class is pretty large, too. I wondered if we should change it from combined SS/AS/BS to just SS/AS, and move the BS cars down to S1 with the CS cars... but it turns out that the largest part of our S1 class actually *is* BS cars. S2000, Z4 and Boxter S are all BS cars. Not only do they make up most of the class, but they're holding their own against the "faster" SS/AS cars... at least at our level of competition. So, we should probably just leave S1 as-is.

Can/should we do anything about the Miatas? Did SCCA bump them down to give the BRZ/FRS a clear shot at winning? Or did they bump them down to give the NB a clear shot at winning the lower class? If their numbers are anything like ours, they're seeing a crapload of NB's just like we are, and decreasing numbers of stock NA's. So, there may be some logic in what they did. In with the new, out with the old, so to speak. Maybe we should just roll with it and let the newer/faster "reasonably priced sports cars" duke it out in S2?

S3 is healthy. Better than ever, I'd say. The 3-series (as well as the 1-series) is a nice addition the the class. No worries there.

S4, of course, is now "the Miata class" with the odd MINI Cooper S, Mazdaspeed 3/6, etc.

S5 is the same old mixed bag. A lot of VW's lately.

We further concluded after some discussion that we think the NB Miata can be reasonably competitive in S2 and the numbers make more sense to leave it there at least for another year. Is our opinion partially tainted by the fact that we don't want to see a dozen Miatas lumped into one class where half of them don't have a prayer of winning... and the fact that FAST was born of a Miata club? Probably.

As for the NA/NB Miata debate. There is a reason why SCCA had the NB classed higher than the NA for several years. It's because they are faster. Can a really good driver prepare and drive an NA faster than a mediocre driver in an NB? Sure, but that's not the point. The NB is the faster car. SCCA classed it down because the NA's are all now over 17 years old and becoming obsolete in their eyes for stock class competition. SCCA always favors the new in stock classes. Not saying that's wrong, it's just the way it is. Our attendance numbers indicate that in this instance, that's not what we need to do.

Perhaps you might have chosen to leave all the Miatas together and sacrifice some Mustangs and Camaros to S2 instead. We chose the option that leaves things as close to "the same" as possible because it's been working for us. And we did this back in March because we wanted to make the announcement as early as possible to allow people time to prepare, not buy the wrong car, or whatever. I have no intention of making big changes to classing 2 months before the beginning of a season. It's just not a responsible thing for a club to do.

[twistedwankel]

So are 140 tires okay until Jan, 2015?

I still have a set 1/2 wear left so guess they will have to get worn out on Classics or BMW/PCA events? No biggie. Guess those old 140 Hankooks are really tough.

Remains to be seen how well the new compound holds up?

Doug

[Loren]

So are 140 tires okay until Jan, 2015?

We're not changing our treadwear rule this season, so they'll be good until at least August of 2015.

[twistedwankel]

The one that's come up in chatter the most is the Toyo R1R. Not sure about some of the older Bridgestone or Hankooks.

I used a set of 140 R1R's last season and altho good cannot touch the new 200 Rivals I presently have. I think the ones that are a concern were the 195 size due to different compounds 1/2 way thru the tread that racers were shaving down to run on new?

[twistedwankel]

Looking down that list and remembering the last couple years.

I could see merging BS cars into S2. I see their times as very competitive with the top 4-6 cars. My RX8 was a BS car once. I think I could easily compete against the majority of BS cars as they don't appear to have much aftermarket support for racing. Like my RX8 they are also out of manufacture in many cases. Also the new (appear to be dominant in SCCA) BRZ's are really competitive with a ton of aftermarket and factory support. If for no other reason all their parts are still new and they have access to legal crash bolts from the factory to get more camber (-1.5*).

I do agree that the current generation of MX-5's are very competitive in S2 with the right FAST setup and driver.

[Loren]

Moving the BS cars out of S1 at this point would leave us with an almost vacant S1 class. As it is, the BS cars are winning S1. Due to that and numbers, no change is required.

Basically, none of our FAST stock classes are "broken". The average numbers are pretty good, and most cars are capable of being reasonably competitive where they are classed.

[Loren]

Bumping this again just to remind everyone that the change is effective with the first event in September.

As always, as a competitor, it is up to you to "police" your class and be sure that drivers are classed appropriately. We don't check classing on each and every car that registers. Like everyone else who's been around a while, we're pretty familiar with the classes, and if it seems "reasonable" we roll with it. But, it would be easy for some of the more obscure cars or cars that have been reclassed to sneak into an incorrect class. So, if you're at all concerned about the competition in your class, you should take it upon yourself to verify that your competitors are correctly classed and either let them or us know if they aren't. (and you have to let us know before the end of an event if you want a change made to the results for THAT event, once the event is done, it's done)

I'll get the info and lists straightened out and get rid of the old lists soon.