20 Sept Post-Event

[jesup16]

The air-craft mechanics only wanted to know how to sign-up for the next one. One of them had a Nissan z-car and wanted to give auto-x a shot. We kindly directed them to the interwebz.

[jaball77]

Wow, was the course that much faster in the afternoon or did I just suck 50% more than usual?

It's the car, that thing's a turd. I'll give you 2K for it if it will make you feel better.

I'm going to blame my not having autocrossed in several months, my gearing, and the fact that I haven't been to Brooksville in forever and have forgotten how much grip there is on that concrete.

[Charles]

I mean... Charles turned a quite respectable 45.2, and your best clean time was a full 1.5 seconds faster. Where was that second and a half?

And your last run was a second faster still (yeah, you hit a cone or two). Damn near two seconds faster than EVERYBODY. Actually, more than two second faster than everybody other than Chris Hammer.

It didn't hurt that the car actually ran well(after sitting for 4 months no less). We added ~ 0.2 more rear camber Friday morning since the car felt too loose to me at the last few events. I think that helped a lot. Usually takes me 5 runs to get it right and after botching my 3rd run I drove the 45.2 overly conservative to keep it clean. Doubt I heard the tires more than 2-3 times on the whole run.

The wiggle section before the slalom on the return side was fun. When I did it right, felt like I was entering the slalom at Mach 2.

Just to chime in on the tire discussion, we are running the original 255 RS3's from the 13th week of 2012. Even with 2 drivers in the small run group they worked well.

Noticed when I was unloading the car that the driver's rear had a chunk of metal lodged in the tire. Pulled it out and it doesn't appear to be leaking so I guess it'll ride?

[Rosko]

I think it's a myth that the afternoon is faster unless there are weather issues.

Assuming it's a normal day that gets hotter into the afternoon, and the surface heat rises, this is no myth. Hotter surface plus hotter tires equals significant advantage. This is the only downside to the split event format.

This is a well established fact in pro racing. I'm not sure how it wouldn't be at any level of racing, again, assuming that your tires like heat, which doesn't seem like a stretch.

[Charles]

So, anyone running 46's might have felt like they were doing okay. Most of us think that way. The ones who don't (Jeremy is a good example), just keep getting faster because they're basing their expectations on what they know the car can do rather than on what times others are driving.

[ExecutiveHydra]

This worked perfectly to slow the speeds approaching the last turn so that even the fastest cars could safely accelerate through the last turn without even a lift. Well, except for Paul. But, we won't talk about that.

So much powa in the Mustang! I would blame my tires, but we'd all know it was a driver mod issue lol. At least I didn't drop any parts!

[jbrannon7]

I think it's a myth that the afternoon is faster unless there are weather issues.

Assuming it's a normal day that gets hotter into the afternoon, and the surface heat rises, this is no myth. Hotter surface plus hotter tires equals significant advantage. This is the only downside to the split event format.

This is a well established fact in pro racing. I'm not sure how it wouldn't be at any level of racing, again, assuming that your tires like heat, which doesn't seem like a stretch.

This is why I always prefer afternoon. Sleeping later is good and putting up with the heat is bad, but hot pavement and hot tires are worth it to me.

[twistedwankel]

Hmmm. Haven't seen a lot of folks running twice lately but I don't recall anyone who ran in the morning competitively and again in the late session for "fun" with total recall of the course and car setup doing all that much better? Or killing it? But I'm sure someone will do a search and list those results because they have no life. But that would be interesting to know for real anyhow.

It appears to me the general concenus is if you want to be competitively compared you go with the majority. I see S1 in the AM, S2 in the PM and looks like the big Mod groups are together too.

I don't find the temp build on 3ft deep tan concrete being the same as 2" deep black asphalt either. But that's only my feet telling me they aren't burning as much when I work grid for 1.5 hours.

Chuck Ray was the ONLY guy who ran in the AM and won first place while the 6 other guys all ran on hot pavement in PM. This means that Chuck might have gotten FTD instead of Jeremy. Okay. Chuck always did have a good sense of humour. Guess the glove is thrown down to the 95% majority in S4. Like cold air doesn't benefit a turbo

1T S4 1337 Chuck Ray 14 Ford Focus ST Silver 46.834 47.517 46.583+DNF 48.467 46.834
[-]1.382
2T S4 20116 Joshua Rector 93 Mazda Miata Black 49.307+1 48.355+1 48.216 49.105 48.216
+1.382
3T S4 20171 Trevor Renson 10 Mazda Mazdaspeed3 Cosmic
Blu
49.671 48.779 47.642+1 47.947+1 48.779
+0.563
4 S4 20111 Jonathan Greenberg 14 Subaru WRX Silver 50.678+DNF 48.238+DNF 46.506+2 46.840+1 48.840
+0.061
5 S4 20177 Bryce Brown 97 Mazda Miata Blue 53.453 66.157 51.450+DNF 49.879+4 53.453
+4.613
6 S4 20321 Philip Petire 96 Mazda Miata Dark Blue 49.670+5 53.844+2 52.132+2 48.903+3 54.903
+1.450
7 S4 2042 Carl Blocker 90 Mazda Miata Red 59.120+2 55.420+1 54.431+1 54.613+1 56.431
+1.528

[Loren]

Gonna have to start charging more for the afternoon session after all this.

[Inspecta]

Hey! Out of those top four, my little meotter is the only one on 195s, 21 year old shocks and almost everything else.

Chuck was fast for sure.

[Loren]

Doesn't matter much right now since the results from this event are all that counts so far, but Season Points have been updated.

[Rosko]

I don't find the temp build on 3ft deep tan concrete being the same as 2" deep black asphalt either. But that's only my feet telling me they aren't burning as much when I work grid for 1.5 hours.

Chuck Ray was the ONLY guy who ran in the AM and won first place while the 6 other guys all ran on hot pavement in PM. This means that Chuck might have gotten FTD instead of Jeremy. Okay. Chuck always did have a good sense of humour. Guess the glove is thrown down to the 95% majority in S4. Like cold air doesn't benefit a turbo

I guess I shot myself in the foot with that argument! However, Jeremy, I will PM you with my address so you can send me my FTD sticker!

Doug, asphalt vs concrete; I'm not sure which one benefits more from heat. I am only guessing about this, but is Brooksville grippier because the concrete has a rougher texture? Is it also harder on tire wear? I'm definitely interested in any ideas about the details of the surfaces we drive on. Things differ greatly even when the surface is comprised of the same material. That asphalt in Z-hills - half of it - was the slippiest thing I ever slid across!

[Loren]

Smooth concrete is grippy mainly because it has a very fine aggregate (sand) so that your tire has more surface contact area. Asphalt typically uses a larger aggregate (pebbles), so less of your tire tread is in contact with the pavement. That's the biggest difference.

Zephyrhills was just weird. (I think they've repaved it, so if autocross every happens there again, it will be different) One half was fairly normal rough asphalt. The other half was some heavily soft sand-based asphalt mix that was very weathered. When you drove on it, the surface turned to a fine powder, which was then there on the course for your next run. It was like constantly driving on fresh fine sand.

The other difference between runways and parking lots is drainage. Runways are flat with a very slight crown for water to drain to the sides. No humps, no bumps, no drains, just a smooth and flat surface. (sometimes with rough expansion joints like Brooksville) Parking lots usually have some sort of more aggressive drainage, so there will be hills and humps and bumps and on-camber turns and off-camber turns and things that all conspire to (usually) compromise your grip.

[twistedwankel]

I'll add that if one has an adjustable set of shocks I run softer highway settings + slightly less tire pressure on variegated up and down asphalt lots and harder settings + max tire pressures on flat concrete seems to get me my best times consistently.

If you want to know the condition of a surface look at the R tired cars all covered in sand, pebbles and sometimes grass or tar rolls from the cracks when they pull back into grid.

One way I use to learn the sweet spot for tire pressures is to keep letting air back out a pound or two at a time until the tire pressure stops raising at the end of a run and stays pretty constant. If you let the car sit overnite in the garage and check pressures in the morning you will be surprised how low they go. That pretty much becomes my "new" stone cold starting point as by the time I drive to an event the pressures are up about 5psi all around. After one run they will be nearly perfect never having to touch them all day. Even with 10 drivers.

**If you go to a big event with no co-driver (tire warmer) and only get 3 runs/day you start at optimum desired pressure cold on the first run. Then let the pressure back down to optimum for the second run and you're good to go for the last run too = focus on driving. Repeat the following day, stay clean at least one run and get their attention:)

As if you guys aren't fast enough all ready

[Loren]

Yep, soft shocks at SPC, stiff shocks at Brooksville.

Videos! These are all from Facebook.

Olsen, Davis, Hewett & Hughes. I'll let you figure out which is which:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmuH-u46IY0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qdLn5Dw2RQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7EFEKInHY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dQ2S8lcb6A

[AScoda]

Here's my secret recipe:
Concrete--make sure there is air in tires and some gas in the tank. Drive the piss out of it.
Asphalt--make sure there is air in the tires and some gas in the tank. Drive the piss out of it.

You guys are working too hard.

[Loren]

I think you're onto something, Drew.

[Jeremy]

Here's my secret recipe:
Concrete--make sure there is air in tires and some gas in the tank. Drive the piss out of it.
Asphalt--make sure there is air in the tires and some gas in the tank. Drive the piss out of it. .

You might want to rethink your strategy now that you are in my class.
Unless you've already resigned yourself to 2nd place for the year after one event. :0

[twistedwankel]

Jeremy has never driven the Grey8.

I am getting a new set of factory liquid filled motor mounts installed NOW (as I was concerned I had MS), like today, trans re-positioning at perfect angle and a new factory under tray to focus the air properly too to keep balls from overheating due to excitement.

Beyond original with all the "Flashes" and perfect soon? It's only taken me 3+ years.

The next one will cost you all. $$$$$. I've had offers. Everyone wants some serious competition. I know what I can do. What can you all do? We will see.

The Mayor

[AScoda]

You might want to rethink your strategy now that you are in my class.
Unless you've already resigned yourself to 2nd place for the year after one event. :0

With Tim and Jessie and I don't even know who else also in this class, I may be just along for the ride.
I have enough T-shirts anyway.