Newbie questions

[ianjoub]

Also, you won't be able to run an open top car without a roll bar/cage. Even if you could why would you?

Because I haven't had time to fab it up/ install it yet. Also, because I am 100% confident that I can go do my first autocross without killing myself

[ianjoub]

Come to think of it, I don't think I could flip this car if I tried. It has a very low center of gravity and a wide wheelbase compare to height.... Think large shifter cart.

[lddavis91]

What Scott said, very cool car, that is one helluva big intercooler.

[AScoda]

I am 100% confident that I can go do my first autocross without killing myself

You've heard the phrase "famous last words", right?
It is highly unlikely that any car would ever roll over. Just not enough grip. It does happen, though. It is usually from a failure of some kind. Suspension breaks, wheel comes off, or tire unseats from the rim, something digs into the ground or a groove in the pavement and over it goes.
While you are probably correct, keep Murphy's law in the back of your mind at all times. Problems result from the unexpected.

[Jeremy]

How is no rollbar in that car any different from NA and MB miatas? Those windshield frames aren't that strong.

[Loren]

It's really not any different. We'd let a Miata on Hoosier DOT-approved autocross tires (which are far grippier than the R-888) to run without a roll bar and not question it. Which is why (coupled with the fact that it is in line with our insurance requirements), I'm saying it's okay.

I've driven a Miata on a race track without a roll bar. We all make choices. Sometimes they're not the best choices, but we make them.

[ianjoub]

It's really not any different. We'd let a Miata on Hoosier DOT-approved autocross tires (which are far grippier than the R-888) to run without a roll bar and not question it. Which is why (coupled with the fact that it is in line with our insurance requirements), I'm saying it's okay.

I've driven a Miata on a race track without a roll bar. We all make choices. Sometimes they're not the best choices, but we make them.

I could win a Darwin award!

[Loren]

Do it on your way home so I don't have to do the paperwork!

[Inspecta]

How is no rollbar in that car any different from NA and MB miatas? Those windshield frames aren't that strong.

Well, a Miata does weigh twice what his car weighs and it has a third of the power.

[ianjoub]

Do it on your way home so I don't have to do the paperwork!

Good philosophy to live by: Don't make your problems someone else's.

[impalanut]

My answer was because he had asked about an SCCA event. They won't let him run because his car does not meet their rules.
A midget rolled over at an event in Ft Myers when a tire hit the edge of an expansion joint. Only moderate injury to the driver because it rolled slowly and gave him time to lay over into the passenger seat.

[Loren]

Oh, make no mistake, it can and does happen. And being able to "duck" is exactly why they don't allow dual shoulder harnesses without a rollbar.

[twistedwankel]

I was impressed with your build forum and all the abuse you took chopping up a "desired original car".

Seems like you left a lot of shiny metal to rust again over the length of your build. Is that going to be an issue or did you go back and coat all those bare welds and metal?

Only concerned if I'm working the course that day. Otherwise you can live with 300+HP in 1800 lbs. No one else has that ratio except maybe Howard? Not the "Duck".

The Mayor

[Jeremy]

My answer was because he had asked about an SCCA event. They won't let him run because his car does not meet their rules.

3.3.2 Rollbars
Roll bars or roll cages are strongly recommended in all cars. A roll bar
meeting the requirements of Appendix C or a roll cage meeting the re
quirements of the Club Racing General Competition Rules (GCR Sec
-
tion 9.4, Roll Cages For GT And Production Based Cars, and/or GCR
Section 9.4.5, Roll Cages For Formula Cars and Sports Racing Cars)
is required in all A Modified (AM), B Modified (BM), C Modified (CM),
and F Modified (FM) vehicles and all open cars in Prepared Category,
D Modified (DM) class, and E Modified (EM) class. For open cars in the
Street
, Street Touring®, Street Prepared, and Street Modified categories,
the roll bar or roll cage height may be reduced from Appendix C or
GCR 9.4 requirements to the highest possible height which fits within
an installed factory-specified hardtop or convertible top. The roll bar or
roll cage height may also be reduced in the same manner for cars in
the Prepared category with a full original equipment windshield assem
-
bly and a standard (as defined herein) hardtop which has been bolted
securely in place.
Double-hoop roll bars must fasten properly to the chassis/unibody as
required by Appendix C, particularly at attachment points in the center
of the car.

I think we already deduced that your car is something in the Mod category, most likely AM.
I would be prepared not to pass tech depending on who is at the event that day, cause according to the rulebook your car can't run at SCCA events.

[Jeremy]

How is no rollbar in that car any different from NA and MB miatas? Those windshield frames aren't that strong.

Well, a Miata does weigh twice what his car weighs and it has a third of the power.

I've seen 3-5 stockish Miatas get really high up on two wheels at Brooksville. I don't think weight or power has anything to do with flipping. It's probably more center of gravity, bad luck, and/or not enough driver skill, which will land you upside down.

[BrandLoyal]

I missed all the exciting stuff. I've seen a few vettes "disappear" into the tall grass at a few events and I saw Howard cook 2 motors.
All this talk about rollovers, These guys do it right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45H1pUXQXos

[ianjoub]

I was impressed with your build forum and all the abuse you took chopping up a "desired original car".

Seems like you left a lot of shiny metal to rust again over the length of your build. Is that going to be an issue or did you go back and coat all those bare welds and metal?

Only concerned if I'm working the course that day. Otherwise you can live with 300+HP in 1800 lbs. No one else has that ratio except maybe Howard? Not the "Duck".

The Mayor

I did not coat any of the bare metal yet. I will completely disassemble the car again at some point and send it off for a caustic bath. It will return as clean etched metal and will be coated/painted at that point. I wanted to wait until after I tried to break it to do that. If I break things now, I don't have to grind on an expensive paint job to reweld stuff.