Jan 31 Classic

[Professional_Slacker]

Game simulators won't exactly match reality, but serious racing games do have realistic physics.

I know you are right. I just found it a cool similarity.

[twistedwankel]

Oh well I'm thinking suspension in the next 6 months.

You mean like a mental "suspension" where you don't have issues with tires?

Based on your lack of luck with tires Michelin makes a really great Pilot 220 wear "runflat".

OR you could just dump a bunch of that green slime in there when the tire is new and forget about it?

Doug

[twistedwankel]

Game simulators won't exactly match reality, but serious racing games do have realistic physics.

I know you are right. I just found it a cool similarity.

I've checked out a couple "homes" and none of them so far have "simulators" other than the place that "simulated" reality of a small town for the Reagans and named after that guy who I can't remember?

There was a guy having a great time with his kid in one of those car shopping carts yesterday. He only got me by 1/2 a cart at the checkout using a Rondrift. Hey it was free and some people were betting on it.

[Carracer]

I came to a stunning realization today. I have the exact same car set up the exact same way as mine in Gran Turismo 6... and I can replicate the spin-outs I've been having 10 out of 10 times under similar conditions on any track in the game.

it's interesting because I also have a fully modded version that has none of the same handling quirks. so do the software engineers at polyphony research cars so much that they can actually calculate the effects a mod will have and replicate it via game physics? if it's true, could really make for an interesting tuning/trouble shooting tool. I need to investigate this further. but it's intriguing to say the least.

I don't have much experience in setting up cars in the real world, just experance with a few highend RC toys , but I can say GT6 get's unrealistic when you start making changes to the suspension. The ride height settings and camber settings are 100% incorrect unfortunately. If you added about 1.5 degrees of camber to an NB miata in the game, it would make the car have "less" grip.

[twistedwankel]

I dunno about you guys? The future of racing might be on line.

I do know the last guy to get the last ride in an F1 car won a frickin' electronic Game driving contest out of 100,000 guys. AND he's doing pretty well last I read. ALSO all the top drivers are using those game sets to save millions of $$ in wrecks, track rentals, etc for their teams.

ONCE they put a piano stool under that seat so you can spin out like you all do in the real world I will totally buy into that.

BUT those F1 grocery carts do handle very well if you trail brake with your left foot.

I might end up with ONLY Rob to race against at the local stores with our NoPros?

The Mayor

[Imua]

Hi everyone! SO here's my contribution--my best clean run at 41.679. Im finding the GoPro vids very instructional. Looking at others vids and at mine, I found 2 systematic errors in my run depicted below. Can you name them (or point out others)?

I'm not sure what you're seeing. In general, I think you're turning harder than you need to in some places. Sort of pinching off a turn that you could squeak through with a lot less steering input.

You didn't give yourself a good setup to the right-hander after the straight coming out of the Chicago box (that wasn't really a box... but on the original course, it was). You could have carried more speed through that, jabbed the brakes HARD before the left (not IN the left... some people tried that, doesn't work!), and probably actually accelerated a bit out of the left and toward the entry of the turn-around.

You took the turn-around WAY too slowly. Listen. Do you hear tires? Too slow. Exit speed of the turn-around was entry speed into a wide-open accelerating slalom. Pretty important.

So, while 41.6 is nothing to sneeze at. (it's actually pretty darned good!) You could have easily been in the low-mid 40's.

Think "exit speed" and "get on the gas as early as possible". And remember, having a FWD car that can oversteer is a GOOD thing... just use your right foot to modulate weight transfer and put the weight on the back when you need to stop rotation. (learning to left-foot brake is very helpful for FWD)

Thanks for the feedback, Loren. I really appreciate it--precisely what I was looking for. The two errors I thought I saw were too much steering input (which you also pointed out) and failure to maintain a smooth line. I think I said to Chris before I left on Saturday that if I was ever going to improve my time, I would need to figure out how to execute the turnaround faster (and you noticed that one too). I am fortunate to have another veteran autocrosser that gives me tips when I run with CFR and she offered the same advice about getting on the gas sooner. I'm glad to know that everyone is seeing the same potential areas of improvement.

Regarding the car, yes, it is rather unique and indeed a bit of a monster. It does drive a lot like a FWD car, though it can (and does) transfer up to 50% of the available torque to the rear. I can get it to rotate relatively easily and as long as I stay on the throttle, the AWD will straighten it up, but lift, and its over! I am still learning to manage that and I hope to fine tune that a little more now that I have my tire pressures sorted out a little better

Thanks again for the help. You guys are a lot of fun to run with--I look forward to the next time.

Aloha
Denny

[Loren]

My first autocross car was a Saturn, which was ultimately prepared to meager STS spec. (back in the very early days of STS) It handled exactly the same way. In fact, very few people were able to cope with the potential for oversteer right away. The car was very fast once you "got it". But, most people would inevitably spin the car on the second slalom cone of the first slalom they came to!

"Don't lift!"

[Carracer]

My first autocross car was a Saturn, which was ultimately prepared to meager STS spec. (back in the very early days of STS) It handled exactly the same way. In fact, very few people were able to cope with the potential for oversteer right away. The car was very fast once you "got it". But, most people would inevitably spin the car on the second slalom cone of the first slalom they came to!

"Don't lift!"

Sounds like an old 911 or Peugeot.

[Loren]

Sort of, but it would never oversteer under throttle. It was a very predictable car!

[aw614]

Thanks for the feedback, Loren. I really appreciate it--precisely what I was looking for. The two errors I thought I saw were too much steering input (which you also pointed out) and failure to maintain a smooth line. I think I said to Chris before I left on Saturday that if I was ever going to improve my time, I would need to figure out how to execute the turnaround faster (and you noticed that one too). I am fortunate to have another veteran autocrosser that gives me tips when I run with CFR and she offered the same advice about getting on the gas sooner. I'm glad to know that everyone is seeing the same potential areas of improvement.

Regarding the car, yes, it is rather unique and indeed a bit of a monster. It does drive a lot like a FWD car, though it can (and does) transfer up to 50% of the available torque to the rear. I can get it to rotate relatively easily and as long as I stay on the throttle, the AWD will straighten it up, but lift, and its over! I am still learning to manage that and I hope to fine tune that a little more now that I have my tire pressures sorted out a little better

Thanks again for the help. You guys are a lot of fun to run with--I look forward to the next time.

Aloha
Denny

I'll have to watch your video again, but what I remember, I feel in some spots you could have turned earlier which goes back to Loren mentioning about the using steering effort? Not sure if the R can be driven like fwd? but I try to having the rear swing/prefer having it feel more loose in the back and try to be on the throttle instantly

Im still having major issues with the turn around during the last few times I took my GTI autocrossing. Are your front tires rolling over a lot in the turn around? That seems to be the main issue for me, I try to handle the turn around like my Integra and the front end doesnt want to cooperate and the tires roll over badly.

I just registered for the 15th for the early session, going to try the GTI with my cheapo summitomos HTRZ III since I still havent had a chance to order tires for my integra and I haven't autcrossed since mid jan...

My first autocross car was a Saturn, which was ultimately prepared to meager STS spec. (back in the very early days of STS) It handled exactly the same way. In fact, very few people were able to cope with the potential for oversteer right away. The car was very fast once you "got it". But, most people would inevitably spin the car on the second slalom cone of the first slalom they came to!

"Don't lift!"

Im still learning this even after being on the same setup over a year and pretty much used to it, sometimes it just happens with no warning

[Jamie]

Im still having major issues with the turn around during the last few times I took my GTI autocrossing. Are your front tires rolling over a lot in the turn around? That seems to be the main issue for me, I try to handle the turn around like my Integra and the front end doesnt want to cooperate and the tires roll over badly.

That sounds like overdriving. '80s and '90s Hondas have very good camber control, especially up front -- the VW isn't nearly as good in that regard, so demands a slower or shallower entry.

[aw614]

Nils told me something similar at the pca-bmwcca event and it really helped with that approach on my last run, gotta try it next event.

[Imua]

I'll have to watch your video again, but what I remember, I feel in some spots you could have turned earlier which goes back to Loren mentioning about the using steering effort? Not sure if the R can be driven like fwd? but I try to having the rear swing/prefer having it feel more loose in the back and try to be on the throttle instantly

Im still having major issues with the turn around during the last few times I took my GTI autocrossing. Are your front tires rolling over a lot in the turn around? That seems to be the main issue for me, I try to handle the turn around like my Integra and the front end doesnt want to cooperate and the tires roll over badly.

I just registered for the 15th for the early session, going to try the GTI with my cheapo summitomos HTRZ III since I still havent had a chance to order tires for my integra and I haven't autcrossed since mid jan...

Andrew: Thanks for the feedback. I agree that I could have mitigated some of my exaggerated steering inputs with earlier turn-in. This came up yesterday at the CFR Brooksville event where my driving mantra was "smooth . . smooth . .smooth" instead of "fast . . .fast . . fast" I found that the earlier turn-in became natural with that approach

Regarding the turn around, the Golf R will still plow if you don't set-up correctly (did that yesterday too). Being able to transfer half of the torque to the rear only helps to mitigate the mistakes, but will not completely absolve the driver of his/her sins. I have not had a problem with rolling over the sidewalls on the RS-3s, even at the lower pressure I have been forced to run to compensate for my recent suspension modification. I look forward to running with you on the 15th and we can compare more notes then. I am going to post a vid of yesterday's best run as soon as I figure out what the right place to do that on this forum is.

[Jamie]

Regarding the turn around, the Golf R will still plow if you don't set-up correctly (did that yesterday too). Being able to transfer half of the torque to the rear only helps to mitigate the mistakes, but will not completely absolve the driver of his/her sins.

For turning, it's not about laying down power -- it's about slip angles across the contact patches. Weight distribution and steering angle are still the major factors, no matter where the power's applied -- ask too much of a tire, and it'll stall out and slide.