4/9 Post Event

[RedBRZ80]

I'm going through my videos now, I'm not super tech savvy but I'll get them up on my YouTube at least. Hey it worked, link is below, as Loren said if you late apexed the turn around and set yourself up for the "straight " it was pretty flat out.

[RedBRZ80]

HTTPS://youtu.be/kCUEf7f71xo

[ImpostorDan]

So many great photos. Thanks.

Here is a good one showing looking ahead vs looking where the car is going or at the photographer.

On a related note - was I the only semi-concerned with having a "corner" worker move into the far side of the figure 8? With my usual forte, a little loose, caught myself focusing on the worker rather than the course. I ended up short-terming it by the time I was out the backside slalom; however, Joe's comment and blue_heron's video cover reminded me.

[ImpostorDan]

Photos of first AM run group are posted at https://www.flickr.com/photos/72907081@ ... 7012414875

Also big thanks to Dan for filming my boat car.

Hmmm, my wife has a similar camera... Captain! Thanks for the photos too...


Dave, any flashbacks from the ride along?

IMG_8892 by Philip Petrie, on Flickr

[ImpostorDan]

Great weather, great people and a great course. To bad the driver of my car wasn't up to it, my car sure was.

I was so flustered I left my grey fold up chair and broken tube of sunscreen in front of the trailer. Anyone pick them up?

I we had 3 chairs at the end of the day. 2 of them are grey. I think they are in the trailer.

So I guess that other grey one is actually almost mine... my wife had it in the garage with the rest, but it's actually friends of ours. Suppose I'll collect it back next time - I think it was the more rusty of the two grey ones.

[Loren]

On a related note - was I the only semi-concerned with having a "corner" worker move into the far side of the figure 8? With my usual forte, a little loose, caught myself focusing on the worker rather than the course. I ended up short-terming it by the time I was out the backside slalom; however, Joe's comment and blue_heron's video cover reminded me.

If you have concerns like that, don't wait until after the event to mention it!!! (!!!) At the very least, we'll check it out and give it some thought. Remember, we can't see the far end of the course from the grid are. You are our eyes.

[Blue_Heron]

Thanks to Dat, Loren, Jamie, and David for the pointers. All of it makes sense. What I need to do now is figure out a strategy for putting it all together consistently so I can improve my results.
Dave

[ImpostorDan]

On a related note - was I the only semi-concerned with having a "corner" worker move into the far side of the figure 8? With my usual forte, a little loose, caught myself focusing on the worker rather than the course. I ended up short-terming it by the time I was out the backside slalom; however, Joe's comment and blue_heron's video cover reminded me.

If you have concerns like that, don't wait until after the event to mention it!!! (!!!) At the very least, we'll check it out and give it some thought. Remember, we can't see the far end of the course from the grid are. You are our eyes.

As mentioned, I unfortunately short termed it after all my shifting excitement in the back side slalom. Knowing you reuse elements (or whole maps!) maybe you can make note.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Loren]

It won't change the map, really. Precise worker placement is up to the workers. And, realistically... On a full 360 degree skidpad turn, no place is truly safe! But, we can have then stand further away if necessary.

[Lava Speed 05]

Photos of first AM run group are posted at https://www.flickr.com/photos/72907081@ ... 7012414875

Thanks for the pictures, looks like you captured my last runs mystery cone. I wasn't sure where I hit it. [emoji53]

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[jmdoc66]

So I guess that other grey one is actually almost mine... my wife had it in the garage with the rest, but it's actually friends of ours. Suppose I'll collect it back next time - I think it was the more rusty of the two grey ones.

Thanks for checking.

[xxAGAVExx]

Photos of first AM run group are posted at https://www.flickr.com/photos/72907081@ ... 7012414875

Thanks for the pics

[jaball77]

I don't know if I sucked this weekend or if Jamie and Phil just killed it...probably a bit of both!

I blame my failure on the fact that I had over half a tank of gas and that I have narrower wheels then both of them...

Kidding aside, my Bridgestones felt way different at this event than they did at the previous two. I was able to spin the tires off the line which I wasn't able to do before. Is it possible that the tires are going off already after a few months? Or maybe they change that much with warmer temperatures? I don't think the surface was any different this time. Strange.

[CaptainSquirts]

So during the 2nd set of slaloms I almost spun out due to the rear losing traction. What in this situation would cause this? Since I drive a kinda heavy awd vehicle what would be the best way to approach slaloms? Also to note(not sure if this would be the cause)that I am running pilot super sports. The fronts are new but the rear are a good 4-5 years old and around 2/32 tread life so not sure if they would have less grip than the fronts. Slaloms are a big weak point for me and def need a lot more time on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAi_iiBBic

[jaball77]

What in this situation would cause this?

The fronts are new but the rear are a good 4-5 years old and around 2/32 tread life

I think you answered your own question.

4 years is really old for an autocross tire. PSS's aren't quite as cheaty as something like the Bridgestone RE71R or Dunlop Z2 Star SPec, but they're close. Your rears may have tread left on them but they're "done" as far as autocrossing goes...

[Carracer]

So during the 2nd set of slaloms I almost spun out due to the rear losing traction. What in this situation would cause this? Since I drive a kinda heavy awd vehicle what would be the best way to approach slaloms? Also to note(not sure if this would be the cause)that I am running pilot super sports. The fronts are new but the rear are a good 4-5 years old and around 2/32 tread life so not sure if they would have less grip than the fronts. Slaloms are a big weak point for me and def need a lot more time on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcAi_iiBBic

It looks like you got a tiny bit late on the second to last cone and then had too much speed to complete the slalom. Still 4 year old tires is the rear will make the car even more sensitive in the rear.

[CaptainSquirts]

It looks like you got a tiny bit late on the second to last cone and then had too much speed to complete the slalom. Still 4 year old tires is the rear will make the car even more sensitive in the rear.

3rd to last cone I felt the rear already sliding out side out so I held a straight line longer than usual to regain grip. Besides from old rear tires and probably mediocre line, would being on partial throttle help give the rear a little more grip in this situation?

[Loren]

Daniel, to add to or reiterate what has already been said:

A typical "autocross grade" summer tire will be pretty much dead compared to a NEW tire of similar grade by the time it is 2 years old. Still grippier than a typical all-season tire, and probably fine for street use (if you don't drive like a dick on the street), but nowhere near as grippy as a new tire. This is probably the root cause of your problem, but...

You've got one of those "really fast" cars. Examine the slalom. It was a 5-cone perfectly straight evenly-spaced 62' slalom (2.5 blocks, each block is 25' = 62.5'). And you had opportunity to come at it "too fast", so you had to brake to optimum speed on entry. If you did exactly that, it would be impossible to ACCELERATE through that slalom! And I'm betting that's what you tried to do... which, combined with less grip in the rear... yeah.

I did almost exactly the same thing the first time I drove Doug's Corvette. Trying to accelerate through a slalom that the car was too fast to accelerate through... almost lost it.

You have to accept that every slalom has an optimum speed. If you go faster than that, bad things are going to happen. If your car tends to understeer, you'll get to where you just can't keep up and hit cones. If your car tends to oversteer (because it's RWD, you have lesser tires on the rear, and you have a metric shit-ton of torque coming on whenever it feels like it), the back end might try to step out. What you have to do is keep your throttle input steady... you've got to stabilize your speed, of course... but, if you LIFT you'll initiate a spin for sure. Your inputs have to be measured and subtle to maintain control, and you have to be thinking about it very early. Don't wait until the car is sliding to think to correct your throttle input, anticipate it and start adjusting before the car is out of shape. It's not easy... and it's even less-easy in a powerful car.

What will really mess with your head is the decreasing slalom. Where you have to continually allow the car to SLOW DOWN as you go through the slalom.

Moral of the story: Aside from just learning some "seat of the pants" stuff, pace off your slaloms when you walk the course (don't trust the map, things as simple as slalom spacing are often "adjusted", either incidentally or on purpose). Understand what the spacing is, and whether it's increasing or decreasing... and whether the slalom is straight or offset to the "easy" or "hard" side. All of these things will dictate how you should plan to attack that slalom.

On this course (I may have mentioned this already), the first slalom was intended to be straight 50' spacing. At setup, I felt benevolent and added 3 feet to the 4th cone and 6 feet to the 5th cone... so you could sort of accelerate once you were past the 2 or 3rd cone. The second slalom was straight 62', if you entered it right, you were "maintaining" speed until about the 4th cone, and then getting on it as early as you could get away with. The 3rd slalom was 62', but very easy offset so that you could flat out fly through it. The 4th slalom was intended to be 50' with a fairly easy offset. Ended up being set at about 45 feet for some reason, and we angled it toward the finish. We made the initial offset kinda tight to scrub some speed, and it opened up as you went through it so that you could accelerate from there. (that last one was hard to read, you kinda had to drive it and feel it out)

[Loren]

All of that, and I hadn't watched your video yet!

From the video... remember that AWD often puts a lot of torque to the front wheels, and so will sort of drive like a FWD under throttle. I think that's what you're seeing. It's really hard to tell from the video, but I think you're experiencing the front end washing out in that slalom because you may have entered it slightly too fast. You never got on the gas in that slalom, which means you didn't have any weight on the rear, so it could have been a little loose back there, as well. (you need to be a little on the throttle to transfer weight to the rear) But, the initial problem looks like it may have been the front letting go.

Even more than watching the slalom, it's what I see in the skidpad that makes me think "understeer". Look at the car's trajectory vs. the sound of your throttle inputs in that loop to the right. Classic FWD-style understeer.

The other thing I'm seeing (and I believe I've mentioned you you before that this will NOT be easy to learn in your car with it's peaky torque curve that's going to vary depending on where you are in the boost curve) is that you're still on-off-on-off-on with the throttle. Right from the start. Launch, off, on-off, on. Try to time your throttle inputs so that you can smoothly get on in the right place instead of accidentally getting on too early, then having to back off and get back on. Generally, you want to be accelerating "out of" stuff and not "into" stuff. That first slalom... enter, maintain, and then accelerate OUT. If you were taking that slalom right at the limit of the tires, that rocking motion that you induced by accelerating where you shouldn't and then backing off again and getting back on it again would cause the car to slide (or spin). Smooth out your throttle inputs... which, in your car, is going to require you to PLAN your throttle inputs.

I think the hardest thing to find in your car is going to be that "neutral throttle" position. Because even at a neutral "maintenance throttle" position, when you're at the kind of RPM you're at in an autocross, boost is going to build, torque is going to start to come up, and you're going to have to back off. I don't even know how possible this is, but you need to try to "ride the boost curve" and keep the torque you're putting down to the wheels as constant as you can in certain instances. Evenly spaced slaloms and skidpad turns being the most obvious instances. If you can't accelerate through it, you've got to be able to maintain "correct" speed through it without pushing wide.

Good luck!

[CaptainSquirts]

Thanks for all the comments everyone, some great input here. I'll still use the pss in the rear until they touch the bars, and then get new pss rears(maybe I'll swap to some 200 wear after I wear the whole pss set). For the on, off and on I try to reach tire squeal a little so I know I'm going fast enough. It's probably not the best approach and should probably focus on having a better line. I tell myself before I do my runs to take it easy and focus on the lines but once I'm on the course my right foot says