Question on new classing rule

[Evil MS3]

I wanted to run something by the FAST gurus about some possible changes to my car to get to the class I want.

Last season I was in M3 but with the new rules I got bumped to M2 due to an aftermarket top mount intercooler and increased boost pressure from my tune.

If I get an "autocross tune" that limits my boost pressure to stock would I go back to M3?

Another point to add, I changed the internals of my high pressure fuel pump. This was not to give me more pressure but to give me more stable pressure with added tuning. This is a safe guard for my car as the stock fuel pump internals can lose pressure with a more aggressive tune causing zoom zoom boom. Would this be considered a hit under the bump rules for modded class too? If so I won't bother with the retune and will concentrate on my driver mod for the M2 class.

PS. I am in no way whining about the changes, I get them, they make sense. Just looking at my options and how I can run this season.

Thanks all!
-Taylor

[Loren]

We're getting a little fuzzy and nitpicky, which we don't like to do. But...

I think if you return your tune to stock boost level, you're okay there.

And the really fuzzy one... the rule says you can't change fuel pressure, not that you can't change your FPR. As long as you keep it adjusted to factory spec fuel pressure. I think you are within the spirit of that rule. You're not "adding fuel".

That's my take. Steve? Anybody else?

[Jamie]

Can you take a screwdriver or a laptop and change the settings at an event, or not? If the latter, then I agree with Loren. If it's adjustable on site, then it's too difficult to police.

[Loren]

Don't kid yourself. We can't police anything. These days with computer-controlled everything, we have to take people at their word that they haven't changed something. We're talking about local competition for stickers and a t-shirt at the end of the year... they have to sleep with themselves at night.

We have no intention to "police" anything any more than we ever have.

[Jamie]

It's not so much whether you will, but whether you could. No one walks around checking tire width in S5 or M4, but they could. Ditto for stiffer springs, boost level, or fuel pressure. If you were to take a measurement, but you can't rely on it, then what's the point of putting a rule on it? (And yes, I know you could program the ECU to return everything to stock settings as soon as the engine goes to idle, the driver says a magic word, or some other undetectable trigger...there's a practical limit.) You'd be better off going to something crude, but measurable...or class by tire width and diameter, and rely on the contact patch to limit how much power can be put down.

[twistedwankel]

So Eva and Doug maybe aren't "really" bone stock? OMG. Not to worry. Anyone we can still beat (even tho' marginally) is still fine with all of us

-2* is enforceable:) Anyone who can beat Philip or the Fastiva is a suspect in any class.

[Loren]

I get what you're saying, Jamie, but in stock we've had lots of unverifiable rules for a very long time. No internal engine mods? No changes to the fuel system? No changes to the ECU programming?

Oh, sure, anything "can" be verified. But, realistically, unless we see a visible performance-based reason to expect that something is amiss (except for obvious things like ride height, tire size, etc), we're not even going to question it. And if we do question it, it will be just that... a question. Honor system and the policing of the other drivers in your class is what we have always relied on.

The way I look at it, there are people who will try to "buy" a trophy by spending a crapton of money on their car, and there are also people who will cheat in an effort to win... and we can't really prevent either of those things. At our level of competition, it pretty much comes down to the driver and a good set of tires.

The fact that this thread exists is proof that (at least at our level, with nothing "significant" on the line) our system works.

Kudos to the OP!

[puncturina]

So Eva and Doug maybe aren't "really" bone stock? OMG. Not to worry. Anyone we can still beat (even tho' marginally) is still fine with all of us

What do you mean, Mayor? The only thing we have on our car is a trailer hitch for our bicycles. Doug does something stomping on the brakes and pulling on the emergency brake once the car gets started to disarm the traction control or something. That's the extent of our programming. We don't have swaybars or whatever. We just buy lots of tires every year.

[twistedwankel]

So Eva and Doug maybe aren't "really" bone stock? OMG. Not to worry. Anyone we can still beat (even tho' marginally) is still fine with all of us

What do you mean, Mayor? The only thing we have on our car is a trailer hitch for our bicycles. Doug does something stomping on the brakes and pulling on the emergency brake once the car gets started to disarm the traction control or something. That's the extent of our programming. We don't have swaybars or whatever. We just buy lots of tires every year.

I picked on you because I knew you are "golden" stock. Just really good drivers "finally".

[Evil MS3]

With my car i can reflash a tune on my car in a few minutes and be good to go. I get that you won't be policing it so I could do whatever but that's not the kind of person i am. Which is why i put myself in m2 Saturday with the new rules and why I'm checking about my options. Thanks for the clarification and I think about what i want to do. In all honesty the time difference between my 5th place yesterday and actually making a trophy spot wasn't that far off. Not something i couldn't have done with improved driving. So maybe I'll stay in the larger field for more competition.

[Rawkkrawler]

At our level of competition, it pretty much comes down to the driver and a good set of tires.

I agree with Loren. I may be one of the very few competitive high horespower cars running with FAST. I only got better once I actually learned how to drive the car and finally put a decent set of tires on it. I won't even post my videos anymore because i'm basically idling through the course!

With that being said, I'm going to have people jack up their cars next event so i can check gear ratios

[Native]

Sounds like Taylor has made the decision, but I'm ok with his "stock" tune on the honor system in M3. Rules say either intercooler OR boost mod, not both.
And I'll 3rd Loren and Mike - as they say: tighten the nut behind the wheel.

[Evil MS3]

In all honesty the more I think about it the more I'm thinking I'm just going to stick to M2. I don't feel like going through all the switching and it would still seem I was doing something unfair. The difference in times between me and the competition isn't anything that cant be solved with improving my own skill and not relying on my car doing it for me. Plus, I like the larger competition group. So look out, I'll be coming for you

Also, it's about time to order two more Federals for my wheels....one set is looking a little sparse

[Loren]

You are correct on all but one point. It's not unfair to work within the rules. If you wanted to get within the guidelines, reduce your boost and run M3, there's NOTHING wrong with that.

But, yeah, M2 is a very competitive class, and you're not even on their radar. Go, Underdog, go!

[twistedwankel]

Something I learned from opening up the exhaust with a straight pipe ONLY after the cats on a turbo car was I gained 2psi boost AND it still wasn't overly loud. This knowledge saved a friend a protest at a big event - simply because he had a mechanical boost gage on the A pillar they assumed he was cheating. He had a low restriction exhaust giving him "over boost" on his otherwise stock car. Deemed to be legal by SCCA after all evidence was in. Protest denied.

Sometimes a legal engine enhancement can have other side benefits:)

I used to disconnect my 02 sensor making my car run rich and cool at the drag strip with the boost cranked up:) Gas would shut off at 55F or lower when pump couldn't keep up bam. It's crazy how today's cars can be so easily ECU flashed and still run economically at under 1/2 throttle.

ALL the new Mazda's are being programmed with special handling according to Mazdaspeed sales info. Geesh. Like they aren't quick enough all ready.

[blacksheep-1]

Don't kid yourself. We can't police anything. These days with computer-controlled everything, we have to take people at their word that they haven't changed something. We're talking about local competition for stickers and a t-shirt at the end of the year... they have to sleep with themselves at night.

We have no intention to "police" anything any more than we ever have.

Don't feel bad,they can't police it at our level either, at least you guys admit it.

[twistedwankel]

S1 keeps getting more interesting.

SCCA put the 2017 1LE SS V8 in AS and the 2017 1LE V6 in BS so that makes them run head to head in S1. The 2016 1LE SS still runs in FS = S3.

All I know is you can tell 2017 by a flat black hood and a cool looking emblem on the front fender.

Where can I find an aftermarket magnetic shock system and a torque vectoring Diff?

[Loren]

All you really need is a good set of tires and to push harder and suck less.

[twistedwankel]

Putting the hammer down is probably insurmountable in most cases when the driver has mad skills. We'll see?
Guess the problem is how do they cover 20-30 years of cars with the x1000 computer function kicking in? They don't.
Ultimately any car over 10 years old will be DSQ for Stock.
Virtually everyone will be in M classes. Yes. There will still be that 66 Datsun winning R class and FTD normally. It is what it is.

[Loren]

It's a good thing FAST isn't about national competition.