Sept 6 Post Event Lakeland

[funky49]

Speaking of that, did everyone seem happy with the new classes? Anybody feel like they couldn't compete? The only thing that caught my attention was class G. It seemed like that guy in the Mustang was driving his ass off, yet he was 2.8 seconds out of first.

The guy in the RSX was doing the best he could too

This location and course were great plus the Publix sandwiches were an awesome switch from hot pizza. Big Ups to all involved. I got my neighbor to come out and drive (SRT-4) and some friends to spectate (VWs)!

[Loren]

Guys, you can't expect the classing to make EVERY driver in EVERY car competitive at EVERY event. It's just not gonna happen... even if we had 3x as many classes, it still wouldn't happen.

[WAFlowers]

Guys, you can't expect the classing to make EVERY driver in EVERY car competitive at EVERY event. It's just not gonna happen... even if we had 3x as many classes, it still wouldn't happen.

I want a class for married men born between 1955 and 1960 driving stock blue AP1 (pre-2004) S2000's on street tires. I'd put a couple more conditions in but I don't want to be too specific.

And then even I might be competitive!

[Loren]

I'm going to try to at least ATTEND the next autocross. Then I might be competitive.

[Alexis]

I'm going to try to at least ATTEND the next autocross. Then I might be competitive.

You better attend!

[Loren]

You better attend!

How can I resist an invitation like that? 8)

[muddy]

Second... "the drifting incident". One thing I did not pick up on was: did this happen on the kid's first run? Or did he play nice for a while, and then go psycho on us? It doesn't much matter, I guess. I'd still be inclined to give the kid a stern warning. Everybody deserves a warning. Red flag his run, bring him in and explain to him that we don't play that way. That's not how autocross works.

I agree, outright banning the kid for his antics on ONE run may have been a bit harsh. But, I wasn't there... so maybe it wasn't? Perhaps a better answer would have been to say "look, we'll let you finish your runs, but we're not letting you back out today without an instructor".

Yes, we all get a little "loose" from time to time, especially on a less-than-grippy site like Lakeland. But any experienced autocrosser can tell the difference between simply losing traction (or even intentionally having a LITTLE bit of fun) and staying safely on course and driving like a complete idiot. Don't pretend like you don't know where the line is, I know you do.

Here is what I saw, it was the driver's last run of the day:
smokey burnout/donut in at the end of the slalom, followed immediately by a smokey drift. that changed direction and slip angle several times, while heading directly towards the trucks and against the direction of the course. That was followed by another drift following the direction of the slalom, but not actually following the slalom. We then attempted to red flag the car, but he did two more smokey donuts before he saw the flags and exited the course.

This was well beyond "a little loose", he put on a drift exhibition. His antics fall well within your definition of "driving like a complete idiot". At one point he was travelling on the course in the wrong direction in a drift for about 200 feet (directly toward the parked dump trucks). He turned around and did another 200 ft drift, then followed the course for a while and did a few more donuts. His loud, smokey antics were there for all the public to see. His actions jeopradize our future opportunities to use this site.

If this guy hit a truck, or this had been witnessed by a member of the Joker Marchant staff or a city employee, we would most likely lose the site. In my experience over the last 8 years of autox, I have seen drivers such as this one run into trees (new orleans), go over a levee into a sewage retention pond (zephyhills), hit a pallet of bricks (Ft Myers) and a pile of concrete (brooksville).

Although some may think it is harsh, I know right decision was made with the best interest of the club in mind.

[Loren]

Although some may think it is harsh, I know right decision was made with the best interest of the club in mind.

If it was his 6th and final run, and he'd been driving appropriately prior to that, then there is no excuse. It's a shame that such things are necessary, but it does seem like reasonable action was taken.

I agree that we absolutely can't allow our autocross events to become "free-from drifting exhibitions". That's not who we are, that's not what we do, and it is in our best interest to not allow any association to be made with it.

[Native]

If it was his 6th and final run, and he'd been driving appropriately prior to that, then there is no excuse.

It was, he had, and there isn't.

Again, I want to thank everyone for expressing their opinions about this incident and how it was handled, and for doing so politely. I do acknowledge the diversity. I certainly find it educational, and hopefully others who are following this thread do, too. 8)

[Anonymous]

I don't want to see "drifting" and "smoke show" categorized as idiot behavior as long as you have control of the car, which I agree the person involved at Lakeland did not have control of his car.

If I was to make the rules it would be something like this...

Drifting is allowed. If you spin out, hit more than one cone, or go off course during your run, then the drifting must not continue for the duration of that run, try again on your next run.

Had my rules been implemented last weekend, none of this would have happened.

Drifting is NOT any more dangerous than a normal autocross run. I would argue that a normal autocross run at 10/10th's is more dangerous, because you are balancing on the edge of adhesion. Autocrossing produces HUGE off's, drifting not so much.

*This is just my opinion, if you are offended by it or can't hold a discussion without getting bent out of shape, don't bother replying to me please.

[muddy]

I don't want to see "drifting" and "smoke show" categorized as idiot behavior as long as you have control of the car, which I agree the person involved at Lakeland did not have control of his car.

If I was to make the rules it would be something like this...

Drifting is allowed. If you spin out, hit more than one cone, or go off course during your run, then the drifting must not continue for the duration of that run, try again on your next run.

Had my rules been implemented last weekend, none of this would have happened.

Drifting is NOT any more dangerous than a normal autocross run. I would argue that a normal autocross run at 10/10th's is more dangerous, because you are balancing on the edge of adhesion. Autocrossing produces HUGE off's, drifting not so much.

*This is just my opinion, if you are offended by it or can't hold a discussion without getting bent out of shape, don't bother replying to me please.

I think that drifting through a course is fine, as long as the driver stays on course and doesn't hit a large number of cones. 8)

[Jamie]

I don't want to see "drifting" and "smoke show" categorized as idiot behavior as long as you have control of the car....

I don't think anyone is suggesting something that draconian, and we really don't need to draft up a rule. The issue's never been tire smoke and high drift angles...it's whether the driver is attempting to follow the course in a controlled manner that doesn't disrupt the event. Spin once or twice, it's a hazard of pushing the car. Spin every corner, you're no longer trying to autocross. Go through a corner sideways and take out a couple of cones, just part of the game. Go through every corner sideways and wipe out the course, you're playing a different game. It's not difficult to recognize.

[Alizarin]

If I drove 6 times, how come I only have 5 times?

The combination of 19 and 61 recorded 12 runs. If you recall, I came out after your fourth run and asked you both how many runs you had -- at that point, the scoring system showed Bob with 5 runs and you with 3. Since you both told me you'd done four, I concluded to you that you'd taken a run with his number on the car. After that, you both recorded two more times, so the system showed him with seven runs, and you with five. Based on the trend in times, I'll wager that the 53.009 recorded as his fifth run is actually your fourth, and he's missing one because the computer was set to keep only the first six runs. (Bob...you missing a time?) If that's right, that's a hazard of two-driver cars...if the number on the car isn't correct, the starter may or may not recognize the person under the helmet and call it in.

Kenny -- any way of checking my theory? There's also something wacky with several of the two-driver cars. I'm sure both the Harvey and Merideth cars did more runs than indicated...or did formatting drop something off the spreadsheet?

I am way, way late to this, but I just thought of it today while I was working on an external time display and figured I should check in and see.

She only had 5. There was one run of hers that was incorrectly attributed to Bob that I tracked down when doing the results, but in the end, they only had 11 combined. I checked and double checked. It's partially my fault for not actually checking at the time, since I guess that's part of my job.



Also, to Mike (Corolla guy)... Class E does not have WRXs and STis in it. I can't believe nobody pointed that out.

[Jamie]

There was one run of hers that was incorrectly attributed to Bob that I tracked down when doing the results, but in the end, they only had 11 combined.

Then there's something wacky with the run counter...I checked it twice.

[Jamie]

There was one run of hers that was incorrectly attributed to Bob that I tracked down when doing the results, but in the end, they only had 11 combined.

Then there's something wacky with the run counter...I checked it twice.

[LadyMaynie]

Thank you for looking into it!

[meicalnissyen]

There already is an engine size split for modified street tire. We lumped all the modified race tire cars together because at that level the motor size had little to do with the results. You will see that in the modified race tire class the smaller cars/smaller motors are usually the fastest.

And how fascinating that 5 of the 6 cars in "D" are under 3 liter.........Trying to avoid the crowd in "E" ???

[Anonymous]

And how fascinating that 5 of the 6 cars in "D" are under 3 liter.........Trying to avoid the crowd in "E" ???

You are forgetting about the forced induction multiplier. 2.0L and above turbo cars get bumped up.

I'm assuming the Mazda was just in there because Kenny wants points for when his car is back in action.

[snookwheel]

I wasn't at the event, but I still scored a point! Did Mary show up and drive.. finally?

Scott

[Native]

we just really missed you, man!