January 17th Post Event

[Miata GT]

I liked the course and had a great time. The only bitch I have was the use of those tall ass cones in the opening slalom. That seemed unnecessary. Otherwise kudos to Loren for trying something different and Steve for the best event lunch yet!

[Solar]

Solar, the hold up after the driver's meeting was the novice course walk. It was a long course and Howard did a thorough walk (because there were lots of novices due to this being the week after our novice school), so it took longer than usual. I'd have loved to see first car off at 10am... but when we allow walk-up registration and people are still walking up at 9:20, it's nearly impossible to do. Newb course workers were also responsible for much of the delays when there were downed cones. (but, yeah, I know the course design contributed to that A LOT)

Ahh, that makes sence, I didn't know about the novice walk through, I left the site right after the drivers meeting to get some caffine.

[Loren]

On another note... lots of novices yesterday, and from what I saw most of them improved greatly throughout the day, and a few of them really wowed me with their natural talent.

Oh, how I'd love to see the results...

[Jamie]

Steve is still looking for a chairman for the February event

Steve -- I can take February, with the caveat I'll need a co-chair as a back-up in case I get pulled out of town at the last minute.

I would like to offer a few pointers to the novices, and reminders to everyone else...

It's January, isn't it?

3. Courseworking is potentially dangerous. We try to make courseworkers visible with red vests and flags, but the worker has got to be on their toes and always watching. Talking on cell phones, or playing with radar guns or anything else is not acceptable - it distracts you from what you are supposed to be doing - working the course, and keeping yourself and other courseworkers safe. Also, courseworkers must stand. If you have to reset a cone, or dodge a flying car part, or car, a standing start will give a better chance of not holding up the event, and of possibly saving your own skin. It's a lot slower to first have to get up - and that second it takes could be the difference.
4. Photographers need spotters - if you want to take pix, or have a friend that does, someone needs to be watching out for the photog while they are busy framing a shot. You can't watch out for yourself and shoot pix at the same time.

If anecdotes help, I've personally had to run from a spinning car while working a course (a green B Prepared Corvette Sting Ray roadster...those memories stick with you!). Since I was on my feet, it's just a good story. If I'd been on my butt, I'd be dead. (Those of you wishing for alternative scenarios, keep 'em to yourself. )

While injuries and fatalities are very, very, very rare in autocrossing, nearly all the ones I know of involve courseworkers, not drivers. The first (published) fatality on an autocross course was someone shooting video from inside the course...he's why the spotter rule now exists in every responsible club. Maybe it should have been named after him. I know the "I'm behind the guard rail at SPC" and "I'm 100 ft into the grass at Brooksville" arguements, but since the club is responsible for crowd control and safety, we have to set some sort of easy-to-recognize standard -- requiring everyone forward of the trailer to be standing and photographers forward of the trailer to have spotters saves lots of quibbling.

...a few of them [novices] really wowed me with their natural talent.

Uh-oh...that's bad news for those of us without natural talent...!

[Native]

RESULTS

They were up on the homepage last night. I didn't get to putting the link here because, 1) there was an error that Kenny quickly fixed, and 2) I fell asleep at the keyboard and decided it could wait.

I actually stickered this event...and didn't cone every run...but I did get worse as the day wore on. Looks like lots of people did very well. Congrats to Todd Byram for FTD!

[Native]

Jamie,
Thanks for offering to chair February! Scott Hutton posted in the Feb. thread that he would, too, but needs a ride...maybe you two can work it out somehow?

Noobs - these two guys are experienced - now would be a great opportunity to co-chair with one of them, see how easy it is, and then take your own event later in the year.

[Solar]

I did better than I thought and I only hit two cones all day, right there is a acompishment. Now all I need to do is find some sort of mods on that Celica to move him out of "J-class"

[Loren]

I did better than I thought and I only hit two cones all day, right there is a acompishment. Now all I need to do is find some sort of mods on that Celica to move him out of "J-class"

I'm thinking about changing my suspension back to stock so I can compete in J.

[Native]

^^^ the "J-Police" are serious. They'd probably sneak over to your house, mod your car, not tell you, then nail you for it at the next event and get you kicked back to E. Solar and Michlong are like the Blues Brothers of autocross - they're on a "mission from God" to save class J from modified invaders....

[Loren]

Which probably means we need to address our modified class structure.

Ron and I were discussing this yesterday. "Modified under 3 liters" is getting to be a pretty big place, and one where folks under 2 liters and/or not-turbocharged really can't compete.

Look for a new topic to discuss this soon. (or be the one to start it if you like)

[Native]

Which probably means we need to address our modified class structure.

Ron and I were discussing this yesterday. "Modified under 3 liters" is getting to be a pretty big place, and one where folks under 2 liters and/or not-turbocharged really can't compete.

Look for a new topic to discuss this soon. (or be the one to start it if you like)

Seems like you just did...make a new thread? And FWIW, I agree.

[Loren]

Which probably means we need to address our modified class structure.

Ron and I were discussing this yesterday. "Modified under 3 liters" is getting to be a pretty big place, and one where folks under 2 liters and/or not-turbocharged really can't compete.

Look for a new topic to discuss this soon. (or be the one to start it if you like)

Seems like you just did...make a new thread? And FWIW, I agree.

Oh, alright.

Here's a new thread about how to fix class E

[Roketracer3]

I thought the course was PAINFULL.

I felt like it was unfair towards my Corvette, I had ZERO room to maneuver except for the back portion and DID NOT HAVE FUN.

Sure, all the Miata and S2000 guys slithered through it just fine but I do not think the course was adequately designed to accommodate all cars, ESPECIALLY when there was lots of EXTRA ROOM around the corners to loosen and widen them up. If the officers want to submit themselves to that torture then so be it, but there is no reason that we, with the liberty to design ANY COURSE WE WANT TO, should have to as well. I'm reading a lot of support on the forum, but I know that all I heard was moaning a groaning yesterday.

Not to mention we did all pay full price for 4 runs...

You guys are right, I could have canceled and not ran and I wish I would of.

I think the FAST organization is fantastic, Steve and everybody organizing do a great job at making autocross available to us and in general the experience for me has far exceeded my expectations. However, do not expect to see me at another FAST event except at Brooksville. At least there you gave me the chance to use my car.

Thank you.

[AScoda]

There was nobody involved with running the event that said there would be "at least 6 runs", so whoever said that was guessing at best. The general consensus before we began was maybe 5 runs. For safety reasons, we weren't able to start a second car very quickly and after the first set of runs it was apparent it was going to take too long for 5. Where we probably failed was to get that information to the drivers earlier than their last run.
Regarding the course- Loren did a god job of creating a serviceable course out of the police layout. That was the intention, because apparently there are some misguided individuals who thought that running the police course would be a good idea. Loren, instead of trying this, you should have just told those people that they are boneheads and should just go away. That being said, I saw the course map before the event. I knew it would suck. I knew I would hate it. As it turned out, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but It still sucked and I still hated it. On a positive note, I think that with a few changes the layout could easily be made into an excellent course for SPC.

[Native]

Tim, sorry to hear you weren't happy. Maybe next time will be better.

Drew, well said. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Here is a quote from an earlier thread from Loren:

"As a bonus, the course will take VERY little time to set up, so we should get started nice and early. Even without overlap, we should be able to get in a minimum of 6 runs.
_________________
Loren Williams - Loren @ Invisiblesun.org"

I beleive this is where all the boneheads got the idea we would get more than four runs.

As far as bitching goes, I also have to quote this in Loren's defense:

"Remember, the cops run this course in full-sized sedans, so no whining that it's too narrow or too tight!"

Brian

[Native]

This was pointed out earlier in the thread: we got about 4 minutes of seat time. That's about right for any autocross. Everyone got their money's worth, seat-time-wise. There's no financial guarantee about whether or not you like said seat-time.

We're sorry for anyone who feels misled about the number of runs. And also to the first run group for making the decision "too late." As was stated earlier, the long start interval killed us, time-wise. We kept waiting for the first run group to speed up - to try to increase expected run number. It didn't happen and the decision was made.

[Solar]

I'm thinking about changing my suspension back to stock so I can compete in J.

NOOOO!!!!! I already have Yaris blood on my car, I don't want to compete against it.

the "J-Police" are serious. They'd probably sneak over to your house, mod your car, not tell you, then nail you for it at the next event and get you kicked back to E. Solar and Michlong are like the Blues Brothers of autocross - they're on a "mission from God" to save class J from modified invaders....

We were able to move a couple cars out of "J" that were serious threats to our outcome, you don't mess with "J", we'll find you and boot you out if nessasary.

[Anonymous]

I can echo the sentiments of Tim. The courses generally and especially favor the S2000 and Miata's. You can see by the time disparity.

The guys with higher HP cars are at a disadvantage and not really much fun for the money.

On the other hand Jeremy stated :"The key to a fun and fair course is minimum gate widths and gradually slowing people down and speeding them up. One or two hard stops and starts is OK, but a lot of straights into hairpins into straights gets old and favors the big HP cars."

So you see we have two distinct point of views here. I would be nice to have a collaboration of the two or several points of view. I think we can all agree that we love to drive our cars and enjoy the fast events, but I think that it could be more enjoyable for everyone involved if the courses reflected competition between all the types of cars, not just the guy who designs the course for the day thinking of his vehicle.
Brian

[Native]

I think that it could be more enjoyable for everyone involved if the courses reflected competition between all the types of cars, not just the guy who designs the course for the day thinking of his vehicle.

Again, this course was designed because, over the years, numerous people, who drive a variety of cars, have, over and over, said, "hey, let's run the police course." To imply that it was selfishly designed to satisfy a specific vehicle is, among other things, incorrect.

The courses generally and especially favor the S2000 and Miata's. You can see by the time disparity.

I assume by "courses" you meant just this one. I don't see how a course with 3 300-400 ft. straights favors any lower-powered car, just because it has a few tight corners. To sorta quote Loren from before, if you don't like the course design, sign up to chair an event and you can design whatever course you like, within the guidelines of the host site and our insurance.


People, these events are just meant to be fun. There's no 4 foot tall trophy. No prize money. Heck, even the bragging rights are minimal. We do stuff because it seems like it might be enjoyable, and sometimes different - enduros, Battles...the gymkhana we did got similar reviews to this: "Ok. We tried it. Some liked it, some didn't. It'll be a long time before we try it again." If these unusual events or course designs, which we often try to post ahead as much as possible, don't do it for y'all, that's ok. You never know for sure if you don't try, and odds are as we come up with ideas new and different, we'll continue to try things.