Modified Street Tire Classes - What to do?

[Loren]

Maybe change significant to 25% to allow the GSR swap, but not the Type R swap? Or go by TQ instead of HP?

25% is a good number to use, no problem there.

While torque is probably a more "accurate" figure to use, I think most people are more familiar with their HP numbers.

[Native]

So, let's continue the discussion for at least a week until everyone's had their say before we put it up for vote.

Many of us think we've already seen the best option presented... maybe someone will come up with something we haven't yet considered.

+1

maybe a few more E folks might chip in...

[Anonymous]

Kind of don't want to bring this up, because I am scared people might actually like it.

Choose your own class:

Class 1 - Fastest (fast cars OR pro drivers)
Class 2 - Faster (average cars OR drivers that almost have the hang of it)
Class 3 - Fast (slow cars OR drivers that need more practice)

Win your class by more than 3 seconds (or some other number) and face the wrath of being labeled a sandbagger. And hopefully you will bump yourself up next time.

We could actually do the same thing with the production classes, to keep it consistent.

PS: I still actually favor the SP splits, cause I like even competition.

[Anonymous]

Win your class by more than 3 seconds (or some other number) and face the wrath of being labeled a sandbagger. And hopefully you will bump yourself up next time.

Or something like take the average time of the class. And if you are X number of seconds slower or faster than that, you might need to move up or down.

[Dave-ROR]

Oh geez, everyone > 3rd place is going to move down a class...

[WAFlowers]

Oh geez, everyone > 3rd place is going to move down a class...

Don't make it optional. We class based on past performance! N00bs get to start at the bottom and climb, or in the middle and ...

[TracAction]

I don't think it's good to break it out by drive layout and such, you'll have the same complaints, from the same people and from some new people.

My original thought was not so much the drive lay out as the sport, non-sport and extra sporty so to speak the drive was just a typical type configuration example not a requirement ....

but the Pick your own outta 3 classes may have merrit and would be fun... I think as a general rule everyone one wants to be competative and this would allow people to fall where they are competative. I everyone pick class 3 then so be it everyone knew it would be crowded there and decided that is what they wanted. If you are one of the fastest drivers then wouldn't you want to push yourself to be better by testing yourself against others of like ability.

[Jamie]

Don't make it optional. We class based on past performance! N00bs get to start at the bottom and climb, or in the middle and ...

Hmm...intriguing idea. Get rid of the classes completely, and just give everyone a handicap that's added to their time for the next event. The person finishing in the middle gets 0. Everyone faster adds tenth of a second to their handicap for each position above the middle. Everyone slower subtracts a tenth of a second from their handicap for each position below. So, for example, Jack Neely would have soaked up a 2 second handicap from the December event, which would have pushed him from 6th to 15th last weekend. Steve would have gained a -0.9 second handicap from December, which would have moved him from 28th to 21st.

For the average 60-person event, that makes the next event 3 seconds harder for FTD, and 3 seconds easier for DFL. FAST first-timers start at 0 handicap (mid-pack), unless they're honest or egotistical enough to give themselves a tougher one.

One group too big and unwieldly to compete over the season? Break cars up into a few simple groups -- Production and Modified; race car, sports car, grocery barge; piston, rotary, gas turbine....

Ready on the range...fire away.

[Anonymous]

Kind of don't want to bring this up, because I am scared people might actually like it.

I have already received death threats for bringing up this idea Yellow_Colorz_PDT_22

[TracAction]

I don't like the idea of one large group. and making a driver adjust every month would not be fair you are punishing someone for being good.... in reality a the average driver would come out ahead over the season with that system.

but a system that you can be classed in for the season would be fair and after that season you can move up or down a class. other factors such as a total car change and all would be fair to allow a class change too

[Loren]

Flights of fancy are fun, but our goal here isn't to completely reorganize how FAST classing works.

I think we're still looking at the three "good ideas" that have been presented so far:
1. SCCA SP classing + turbo and engine swap bumps
2. Class by displacement
3. Class by car type and/or drivetrain layout

Driver-based classing is best left for non-novice drivers, and I'm thinking more and more about presenting an idea for that. Will probably be an aside to our normal classing... and will likely involve a little friendly "side wager" to make it interesting. But... let's not discuss that in THIS thread.

Modified Street Tire classes... what are we gonna do?

[Jamie]

...you are punishing someone for being good.... in reality a the average driver would come out ahead over the season with that system.

Yes, and not so much as you might think. Bill's statement got me thinking about the weight-based handicap they use in the World Challenge series. Same principle -- win, and winning again becomes harder. Lose, and you get a little help for the next time. It's self-leveling in that it forces everyone towards the middle. Easy enough to put a maximum cumulative value (in both directions) to keep the handicap from becoming too crushing, or too helpful.

[Anonymous]

Modified Street Tire classes... what are we gonna do?

I don't know, but I am shopping for coilovers, so class 1 watch out.

[Loren]

Modified Street Tire classes... what are we gonna do?

I don't know, but I am shopping for coilovers, so class 1 watch out.

We're not afraid. You'll still hit cones.

[WAFlowers]

Don't make it optional. We class based on past performance! N00bs get to start at the bottom and climb, or in the middle and ...

Hmm...intriguing idea.

It was a JOKE! :shock:

[WAFlowers]

Yes, and not so much as you might think. Bill's statement got me thinking about the weight-based handicap they use in the World Challenge series. Same principle -- win, and winning again becomes harder. Lose, and you get a little help for the next time. It's self-leveling in that it forces everyone towards the middle. Easy enough to put a maximum cumulative value (in both directions) to keep the handicap from becoming too crushing, or too helpful.

Years ago I was in a bowling league. Handicaps were calculated throughout the year. It worked.

The handicap was based on a theoretical "good" bowler. However anyone better than that (I was at the time) wasn't penalized with a negative handicap; they just carried a zero handicap.

Not sure it would work for FAST though and it is too radical a change from anything done in the past, IMHO. It would be like using PAX to try to put everyone on a level playing field.

[Alizarin]

Just get rid of all classes. Results will be posted raw time ("Results by time") and you can compare to whomever you want!

[AScoda]

Basically you are talking about separating the same class overdogs as were in G. I say just split them out the same way. It's a modified class, not everyone will have a car that's going to be competitive. Pull out the higher Hp boosted cars and the S2000, RX8, elises, etc. The rest, including Loren, should stay. Loren's going to be faster, he's been doing this for like 65 years. He can compete in a higher class if he gets tired of laying the wood to everyone. There may be an odd super modified thing that shows up, but that is infrequent and they certainly aren't regulars. I don't think anyone is going to build some beast to dominate any class in our group, that's an expensive project even if you do win one of our super-fantastic class winning t-shirts.

[Jack]

ya, but the t shirt gives you braggin rights for a whole year, thats PRICELESS!

[aparke]

Kind of don't want to bring this up, because I am scared people might actually like it.

I have already received death threats for bringing up this idea Yellow_Colorz_PDT_22

Off with his head!! Yellow_Colorz_PDT_24
Really, handicaps and such?!

Among the three basic suggestions, it seems that the SP-based system is probably the most fair. It already seems that the discussion has clarified that displacement and drivetrain layout would be advantagous to some while being incredibly unfair to others.

Frankly, I don't really know anything about the SP or PAX system, but if SCCA has already done the legwork, this seems like a logical move.

+2 that simple does not equal fair. Trying to incorporate both fails at both.

The committee did a good job with the production classes...seems logical that the mod classes would follow suit.