Da Groj

Loren wrote:Our rules don't prevent you from swapping to a larger non-factory turbo or doing any other mods to the turbo or fuel system on a factory turbo car.

I thought they did? If you upgrade your factory turbo, you are removing the stock turbo and then ADDING an aftermarket turbo.

As far as bumping up boost on a stock turbo, I believe that is allowed in SP, so the classes already reflect that?

Not "all" the turbo cars. The one from "FSP" could stay.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud. Just like I'd hate to see us not have a place for our current "S5" (or even "S4") cars to compete without getting trounced by faster cars, I don't like the idea of our "slowest" mod class being as fast as a modded SRT4. Consider just how fast that car is capable of being. This is our lowest mod class.

But, if I'm alone in that thinking, that's fine.

More food for thought, current PAX indexes (if you don't know what PAX indexes are, Read) for the relevant classes are:
Our base for M2:
CSP = .857
ESP = .848

Our base for M3:
DSP = .851
FSP = .838

That means that on a typical course where Howard might run 41.666 in his BM car, an AM car would run 40.000...
CSP = 46.674
ESP = 47.170
DSP = 47.003
FSP = 47.733

Arguably (and I'm sure we argued it when we came up with the original class split), DSP belongs in M2 as it's faster than ESP. The poor FSP cars are going to have a hard time being 7/10th back.

But, maybe this is all moot, because I just looked at the latest Solo Nationals results and the top cars are all BMW's anyway! (But would they be if all the DSP turbo cars had unlimited boost potential? There's already an XR4ti near the top!)

Jeremy wrote:If you upgrade your factory turbo, you are removing the stock turbo and then ADDING an aftermarket turbo.

I guess you could look at it that way, but if that was the intent, I'd have written it a lot more clearly. In my mind, "adding" a turbo means there wasn't one there before and you added one. "Swapping" a turbo is just upgrading an existing part, like changing an intake manifold or an exhaust header. If we want to require the stock turbo, that rule needs a revision.

As far as bumping up boost on a stock turbo, I believe that is allowed in SP, so the classes already reflect that?

I haven't kept up, but it used to be that "incidental" boost creep was expected, as there wasn't anything they could really do about it, but mods to increase boost weren't allowed.

Okay, from the current SP rules. Mods allowed are basically anything you can do in stock (not much), update/backdate within the same model, bolt-on suspension, and:
"Alternate computer control modules may be used whenever an equivalent change to the conventional system is allowed. For example, alternate computer module control of ignition settings or fuel injection is allowed."

In addition to that, our rules being essentially "unlimited", would allow a full low-compression, high-strength turbo engine build with as much boost as anyone would care to run through it.

Loren wrote:

Jeremy wrote:If you upgrade your factory turbo, you are removing the stock turbo and then ADDING an aftermarket turbo.

I guess you could look at it that way, but if that was the intent, I'd have written it a lot more clearly.

The stock class seat rule is similar...

-Removal of significant factory interior parts (seats, interior panels)

You can't ADD aftermarket seats because you would have to REMOVE the stocks ones first.

Jeremy wrote:You can't ADD aftermarket seats because you would have to REMOVE the stocks ones first.

You can add as many aftermarket seats as you want... you just can't remove the stock ones.

So you could put the factory seats in the trunk. I want to see someone do this.

I say we move the SRT-4 to M3 and then bring this issue back up again in June or July to see about moving DSP cars somewhere for next season. And really someone in M3 should bring it up if they care.

Ok,
Sorry for opening up a can of worms.
So what class do I sign up for in Feb?

I concur, move the SRT4 to M3 (and check for other similar changes that we may need to catch up with).

Since the SRT4 (and DSP turbo cars in general) aren't the top cars in DSP, there's no reason to single them out (other than potential for great power under our ruleset... but it takes more than power to make a good autocross car, and somebody could frankenstein just about any car into something awesome with almost no mod restrictions).

4nmbr6, go ahead and stick with M3. And please update your profile with your name and stuff. (I must have been asleep when I approved that account) Thanks!