Da Groj

Steve, that's actually more defining what "Production" is, but yeah, it will still be in effect.

Just think of all the mods I could have done with the money spent on the RV!

Hmm ... what if you add forced induction to a car in the top class? Where does it get bumped to? (Turbo on my S2000! )

WAFlowers wrote:Hmm ... what if you add forced induction to a car in the top class? Where does it get bumped to? (Turbo on my S2000! )

Sorry, we can't fix every potential problem. Cars in the top class stay in the top class no matter what they do. (short of R tires, which you'd need to really make use of a turbo in an S2000)

Jeremy17 wrote: In addition to that, I believe we came to the consensus that mods will be unlimited except for...

-Bump one class for adding forced induction
-Bump to donor class OR up one class (whichever is higher) for a significant (+25% HP increase) engine swap.

So if D and F end up together, and an F class car does a significant engine swap or adds forced induction does it goes up to C/E class, or it is bumped to D which really keeps it in the same class?

I ask because D has a few F cars with different engines. Ex. civic vtec vs non-vtec, mini cooper vs mini s etc. It wouldn't be fair to make a swapped vtec civic run in the C/E class when a factory vtec civic is in the D/F class.

The bump is for final FAST classing. So, a D/F (E3 for FAST) car does a swap, it bumps to FAST E2( C/E). Assuming of course, those are the classes that get chosen...

As for the swap, your example is correct, if the resulting swap adds 25% hp...IS that in fact what was decided? Or are we just working on the basic classing and then the bumping?

JoshMcg wrote:

Jeremy17 wrote: In addition to that, I believe we came to the consensus that mods will be unlimited except for...

-Bump one class for adding forced induction
-Bump to donor class OR up one class (whichever is higher) for a significant (+25% HP increase) engine swap.

So if D and F end up together, and an F class car does a significant engine swap or adds forced induction does it goes up to C/E class, or it is bumped to D which really keeps it in the same class?

I ask because D has a few F cars with different engines. Ex. civic vtec vs non-vtec, mini cooper vs mini s etc. It wouldn't be fair to make a swapped vtec civic run in the C/E class when a factory vtec civic is in the D/F class.

That's a very good point and also a reason why I didn't want D and F running in the same class. I think we will just have to be very liberal with the notion that a 25% HP increase is always significant.

2000 Honda Civic
DX 106 HP = 34% increase with Si motor = 38% increase with GS-R motor.
HX 115 HP = 28% increase with Si motor. = 32% increase with GS-R motor.
EX 127 HP = 21% increase with Si motor. = 25% increase with GS-R motor.
Si 160 HP
Integra GS-R 170 HP

I say we allow all of these particular swaps. But I don't know how to do it in a written rule, without being really confusing.

I could volunteer to be a judge on what is significant and what isn't at the events, if a decision needs to be made.

This is essentially a similar issue that was discussed regarding rules for Class A. A clear reminder was offered in that thread about how FAST was originally set up, and that the philosophy was to just have a good time driving and hanging out, and that it was not about getting caught up in specific details that may affect very few cars and very few drivers.

There may be a "trap" or two when it comes to classing cars, no doubt, and no specific classing structure is going to possibly address them all. SCCA is always the example brought up. We don't want eleventy-billion classes. FAST's idea has been to try to combine relative simplicity and relative fairness. You can please some people some of the time...

"The People" have been given a forum to discuss and a poll to vote for how classing is set up. Bringing up points like this is good, as it's informative for those who may still be planning to vote. There is a poll option to not combine D and F. Please feel free to campaign for the option of your choice. 8)

Honestly I like all the choices, whichever one gets picked is fine with me.

I am just hoping there aren't any fights because no one knows what a significant engine swap is.

We could maybe simplify by adding an exclusion to the engine swap rule for any engine that is a "common bolt-in swap that results in a factory-available configuration". That would allow many of the common Honda swaps, the 1.6-1.8 Miata swap, Mustang V6-V8 swaps, the MINI Cooper S swap, etc.

Or maybe just up the 25% limit to 50%? But, then you're bumping for a basic supercharger kit that usually only nets 20-30%, but allowing an NA swap that's good for 50%.

Loren wrote:We could maybe simplify by adding an exclusion to the engine swap rule for any engine that is a "common bolt-in swap that results in a factory-available configuration". That would allow many of the common Honda swaps, the 1.6-1.8 Miata swap, Mustang V6-V8 swaps, the MINI Cooper S swap, etc.

That was easier than I thought it would be...

-Bump one class for adding forced induction
-Bump to donor class OR up one class (whichever is higher) for a significant (+25% HP increase) engine swap that is not a common bolt-in swap that results in a factory-available configuration.

Looks like the poll was pretty conclusive. New Mod Street Tires for the coming season should be:

E1 - SCCA ASP, BSP
E2 - SCCA CSP, ESP
E3 - SCCA DSP, FSP

• Tires must be treadwear 140 or greater
• Cars must be streetable, but modifications are unlimited
• Bump up one class for adding forced induction
• Bump to donor class OR up one class (whichever is higher) for a significant (+25% HP increase) engine swap that is not a common bolt-in swap that results in a factory-available configuration

Does that pretty much cover it?

So, just so I know how to register my car next year.....

I didn't "add" induction - it came with my car, so I'm in E2?

The Mazdaspeed Miata is BSP car, so you'd be in E1.

http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_Rule" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... cturer.pdf

ok - Thanks L!

RC

I snooze, I lose.

"Leave it alone." +10000

The beginning of the end of "F"

kickslop wrote:I snooze, I lose.

"Leave it alone." +10000

The beginning of the end of "F"

What's this got to do with class F?

I think the 'F' referenced is the 'F' in FAST. Do NOT let that 'F' die! It's the reason so many people show up! 8)

kickslop wrote: The beginning of the end of "F"

Since we did the same thing with the production classes last year, that would technically be the beginning of the end of "F".

I challenge you to find one person who did not have fun as a result of those changes.