Da Groj

twistedwankel wrote:I mostly want a really good set of tires that I occassionally autocross on competitively.

...and world peace. More likely to get the latter.

By the way, lest you think I'm completely insane and out to wreck the handling of my Miata with 175 width tires...

http://www.puresportscar.com/elisespecs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Lotus elise weighs just a little under 2000 pounds (which is my target, I'm already at about 2050), and comes standard with 175 front tires.

So, while no one would consider a 175 all-season tire to be "excessive" on a lightweight Miata... it's not gonna be all that bad.

Back to the discussion at hand. Maybe doing as Doug suggested and just requiring a weight slip to prove the weight of the car is what we need to do? Yeah, it could be cheated by adding ballast for the weigh-in. But, why would any of us do that for a FAST t-shirt?

http://www.all-startire.com/catepillar-towmotor3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spec tire list. Something for everyone sizewise.

A little initial feedback here: I put 175/70R14 Hankook Optimo H724 tires on my Miata last week.

I had the joy of driving to Brandon through Tampa in a wicked rain storm the day I put them on the car. That was weird and a little scary because the car FELT completely different, and I had no idea where the limits might be or what it would feel like when I reached them. They behaved well-enough, though. Pushed them a little harder on the way home and started gaining confidence.

The next day, I added some air pressure. They were installed with 32 psi, I upped them to 42. That gave them at least passable steering response. They seem to grip adequately. I'm not muscling the car around, but driving smoothly, I can do pretty much everything I did before (35 mph turns at 60-70, that sort of thing)... though surely with a lot less room for error.

Their biggest shortcoming is steering response. You just can't FEEL these tires. The extra sidewall, coupled with all-season SOFT sidewall really takes away the driver feedback. On the plus side, steering effort is way down due to smaller contact patch and less grip, and they're VERY smooth riding and soak up EVERYTHING. RR tracks, speed bumps, whatever... it's made the Miata literally care-free to drive around as long as you're not pushing the limits.

I still need to do a little bit of alignment-tweaking to get the feel right, but this will be an interesting experiment, for sure.

I'll probably autocross on them at the next Brooksville event. Look out!

Did you paint 'em to match the wheels yet?

Native wrote:Did you paint 'em to match the wheels yet?

Okay, so I've put a few more miles on the 175/70's played with tire pressure and setup a little bit, and autocrossed on them.

The verdict: Really not as bad as you might think! On one of the fastest course we've had at Brooksville in a while, in one of the slowest cars, on 175/70 all-season tires, my best time was a 53.5. You can see how that compares here. Basically 3.5-4 seconds off of the fastest street tire guys. 2 seconds for car, 2 seconds for tires.

It wasn't lacking in fun at all, and was very challenging. Inputs had to be started much earlier than normal, but with enough (but not too much) air in the tires, firm shocks, and adequate camber, the car got around just fine!

When I hopped in John's car for my last 2 runs, I found his car to be so responsive that I almost couldn't drive it after getting used to my car. In spite of that, I was instantly 2.5 seconds faster on one run, and 4 seconds faster on the other.

Worthy of note: Again, with proper tire pressure and adequate camber (only 2 degrees, I'm still running a "stock class" setup), the tires didn't roll over, chunk, or do anything else that a tire shouldn't do.

There's potential for this idea if anybody else really has the balls to try it.

I've got a set of 185/60/14 Falken 512's, one mounted reversely. I'd give it a go, but not for an entire season...

If you were going to do it, you'd want to "take it seriously" as you would with any other tire in any other class. A fresh set of tires, even crappy, narrow all-seasons, is going to perform better and be better to drive on than a set of stuff you have had taking up space in the garage for 3-4 years.

"Aged" all-seasons are just going to slip and slide. Fun in its own way, but quite difficult to "compete" on.