Just had an alignment at Advance Performance Tire and Wheel

mymomswagon · Postby **mymomswagon** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:36 pm

Liked it, thumbs up.

Just the back and it needed it as toe was out a bit.

In case you don't know them, they align to your spec.

Tech did mention some AX cars that sound FAST-familiar, so I think some of you do know them

Came up after he said "I've never aligned a station wagon for AX but I have done other interesting vehicles such as...". Just more afirmation that I was in the right place

Got rear camber set to -2, zero toe. Got a read on the front as well: with camber plates set to zero and ball joints at their most conservative setting, printout shows abundant camber and caster.

CaptainSquirts · Postby **CaptainSquirts** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:27 pm

How much did it cost?

twistedwankel · Postby **twistedwankel** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:34 pm

Loren and Dan have their work cut out for them this season. That is some crazy Castor like a dirt track car.

mymomswagon · Postby **mymomswagon** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:19 pm

CaptainSquirts wrote:How much did it cost?

$99. Going in, they gave me an estimate of $99 to $149 "for most cars". They offered to set my front toe and center my wheel but I knew I would be messing with the front myself before Saturday anyhow.

mymomswagon · Postby **mymomswagon** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:22 pm

twistedwankel wrote:Loren and Dan have their work cut out for them this season. That is some crazy Castor like a dirt track car.

but you see the in spec range. German cars have high caster numbers off the showroom.

I bet we Steve and I will be ones with our hands full. Loren is probably wrenching on something right now

Postby **Loren** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:40 pm

mymomswagon · Postby **mymomswagon** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:47 pm

...and "that Fit" ain't chopped liver either

Postby **Loren** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:23 pm

I think you're right, Bill. You should just accept that you and Steve are fighting for 3rd place. If you find that you're a second or two behind, don't let it bother you. You shouldn't even try any harder. That's surely the best you can do.

mymomswagon · Postby **mymomswagon** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:34 pm

well lately it's been "work on the car, warch Steve go"

twistedwankel · Postby **twistedwankel** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:26 pm

Bill,

Look for a PM instruction manual. Uncle Steve cannot win unless you let him. He has never called me out for $10 first. For a good reason. I let him win to build his sorry ass ego. Even Loren was beating him for Pete's sake. How slow can you go?

You want to beat him in a 93 Stock 3799# Ford? Just for fun? I'm running in the PM with my wife as a ride along. M is for "Mommy". S is for "Stones".

Doug

twistedwankel · Postby **twistedwankel** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:30 pm

mymomswagon wrote:
CaptainSquirts wrote:How much did it cost?
$99. Going in, they gave me an estimate of $99 to $149 "for most cars". They offered to set my front toe and center my wheel but I knew I would be messing with the front myself before Saturday anyhow.

Steve paid for it. Told them to fake the results.

twistedwankel · Postby **twistedwankel** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:32 pm

mymomswagon wrote:but you see the in spec range. German cars have high caster FAKE numbers off the showroom.

There fixed that for you.

mymomswagon · Postby **mymomswagon** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:04 pm

Actually Steve has won M4 the last 4 times my wagon competed. :respect:

Pissed Steve off a few months ago with some playful trash talk. He's been smoking me ever since

Loren is Mr. Consistency. Think I once finished ahead of him, but he probably coned a good one... or it rained on him bad.

twistedwankel wrote:Bill,

Look for a PM instruction manual. Uncle Steve cannot win unless you let him. He has never called me out for $10 first. For a good reason. I let him win to build his sorry ass ego. Even Loren was beating him for Pete's sake. How slow can you go?

You want to beat him in a 93 Stock 3799# Ford? Just for fun? I'm running in the PM with my wife as a ride along. M is for "Mommy". S is for "Stones".

Doug

twistedwankel · Postby **twistedwankel** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:44 pm

You cannot piss Uncle Steve off - it's his sorry ass vengeful life - not you. Merely coincidence. Drive the Vic and show him. Lamaze. Breath bitch breath.

Loren is not like Steve yet they get along.

Postby **Native** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:19 am

Omg you guys are killing me here.

That alignment rocks.

Postby **Native** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:48 pm

And that alignment did rock! After yesterday's season-opener, I can say the back of the car has been tamed a bit, but in a good way, mostly.
In sweepers and fast slaloming, it feels neutral and stable. In fast transitions, the back end will still swing out (esp. if you lift), but it does so more slowly/predictably, and is more quickly reigned-in with throttle. But, it's understeer for steady-state stuff, like the turnaround. Now granted, I/we were taking a fairly tight line in this particular turnaround, which would magnify understeeriness, and I suspect that a wider, but speedier line would reduce the understeer.

Overall, a big thumb up!

mymomswagon · Postby **mymomswagon** » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:57 pm

Yep seemed like an easier to drive fast car. At the event, my skill level just couldn't keep up with my enthusiasm...my lines weren't there...but wow fun course.

There's more camber to be had up front with current parts, and as you know, I plan to replace front springs to get a little more travel - give a little ride height (raise it) in exchange for roll center / camber curve (that's my story, sticking to it for now).

One of these days, more power

Native wrote:And that alignment did rock! After yesterday's season-opener, I can say the back of the car has been tamed a bit, but in a good way, mostly.
In sweepers and fast slaloming, it feels neutral and stable. In fast transitions, the back end will still swing out (esp. if you lift), but it does so more slowly/predictably, and is more quickly reigned-in with throttle. But, it's understeer for steady-state stuff, like the turnaround. Now granted, I/we were taking a fairly tight line in this particular turnaround, which would magnify understeeriness, and I suspect that a wider, but speedier line would reduce the understeer.

Overall, a big thumb up!

CaptainSquirts · Postby **CaptainSquirts** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:50 am

mymomswagon wrote:give a little ride height (raise it) in exchange for roll center / camber curve (that's my story, sticking to it for now).

I wonder, does just raising the ride height keep the roll center and center of gravity the same distance apart? thus same amount of body roll/camber curve?

Postby **Native** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:53 am

mymomswagon wrote:One of these days, more power

Tease.

Postby **Loren** » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:00 am

CaptainSquirts wrote:I wonder, does just raising the ride height keep the roll center and center of gravity the same distance apart? thus same amount of body roll/camber curve?

Lowering a car tends to lower the roll center MUCH more than the CG, which increases the distance between the CG and roll center, giving the weight of the car more leverage to create body roll. At the same time, because the cause of this problem is the the lower control arm is angling upward (ball joint is higher relative to the pickup point on the chassis), you'll be at the extreme end of your camber curve. You'll also have your tie rods similarly angled, which will give you significant bump steer.

Believe it or not, lowering a car actually does a lot of BAD things to your suspension geometry. It may still be an improvement over stock by virtue of lowering the CG and making things so stiff that the suspension simply doesn't move a whole lot. As Colin Chapman said, "any suspension will work if you don't let it."

Much discussion on this very topic here.

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