define "stock"

[blacksheep-1]

I was considering running a car next year in the "stock" race tire class, since the suspension has to be rebuilt I was wondering if adding poly bushings and an uper shock tower support would ruin the "stock" thing

[Jamie]

I was considering running a car next year in the "stock" race tire class, since the suspension has to be rebuilt I was wondering if adding poly bushings and an uper shock tower support would ruin the "stock" thing

FAST doesn't have to define "stock", because we don't have "stock" classes. Production cars are just that: cars originally produced in a factory somewhere, as opposed to being built in someone's shop. Should be pretty straightforward from there:

Modified cars are production-based cars with any of the following modifications:
Any internal engine modification (crank, cams, rods, pistons)
Any external engine modification that alters fuel delivery (alternate carb, altered fuel injection, fuel-air ratio adjusters)
Any non-factory engine replacement
Welded chassis reinforcement, including welded roll bars/cages
Alternate or altered springs
Altered suspension geometry (relocated pickup points, alternate suspension parts to increase factory alignment adjustment range such as camber kits, camber plates, or slotted strut mounts)
Alternate main body panels (doors, hood, trunk lid, fenders, roof panel, windows)
Removal of factory interior parts (seats, interior panels)

Any and all modifications not listed above are allowed in the production classes.

So...no problem with poly bushings (so long as they don't alter the suspension geometry -- no offset bushings, unless they came that way from the factory) or a bolt-on tower bar.

[Alizarin]

Modified cars are production-based cars with any of the following modifications:
Any internal engine modification (crank, cams, rods, pistons)
Any external engine modification that alters fuel delivery (alternate carb, altered fuel injection, fuel-air ratio adjusters)
Any non-factory engine replacement
Welded chassis reinforcement, including welded roll bars/cages
Alternate or altered springs
Altered suspension geometry (relocated pickup points, alternate suspension parts to increase factory alignment adjustment range such as camber kits, camber plates, or slotted strut mounts)
Alternate main body panels (doors, hood, trunk lid, fenders, roof panel, windows)
Removal of factory interior parts (seats, interior panels)

Any and all modifications not listed above are allowed in the production classes.

So...no problem with poly bushings (so long as they don't alter the suspension geometry -- no offset bushings, unless they came that way from the factory) or a bolt-on tower bar.

Jamie, I bolded the part I'm about to ask about. I realize the question is somewhat moot for me, but he has, like I do, a bolt-in harness bar that attaches to the seat belt mounts on the B-pillar and also to mounts on the floor. It's all bolt-in, though. The letter of the rule says welded, does it still count as "modified"?

[Loren]

The rules are what they say they are. We intentionally made them VERY simple. If it says "welded", it means "welded", not bolted. If we didn't want to make the distinction, we wouldn't have made it.

If you're trying to run something that's truly "iffy" according to the rules, talk to your competition about it. If they don't care, we don't care.

In this case, what it comes down to is... we don't care if you want to make your car more uncomfortable to drive on the street with poly bushings, and we don't care if you add bolt-in bracing. These things will make a minimal difference when you're still running on stock springs. Go for it!

[Jamie]

The rules are what they say they are. We intentionally made them VERY simple. If it says "welded", it means "welded", not bolted. If we didn't want to make the distinction, we wouldn't have made it.

+1.

[Solar]

What about a after market/factory LSD with stock gearing?

For example, if I were to install a 2006 Honda LSD on my 2003?

[Loren]

What about a after market/factory LSD with stock gearing?

For example, if I were to install a 2006 Honda LSD on my 2003?

This just isn't that complicated...

"Any and all modifications not listed above are allowed in the production classes. "

Does it say anything about transmissions or differentials?

No? Have at it!

[Solar]

Does it say anything about transmissions or differentials?

No? Have at it!

OK!!

[Jamie]

"Any and all modifications not listed above are allowed in the production classes. "

"...except on Hondas."

[treekiller]

Correct. and My fully Seam Welded Unibody is not production legal either :-) Who Needs a Tanning booth, when you have 30 amps of TIG Goodness.

[buddy bodean]

Modified cars are production-based cars with any of the following modifications:
Any internal engine modification (crank, cams, rods, pistons)
Any external engine modification that alters fuel delivery (alternate carb, altered fuel injection, fuel-air ratio adjusters)
Any non-factory engine replacement
Welded chassis reinforcement, including welded roll bars/cages
Alternate or altered springs
Altered suspension geometry (relocated pickup points, alternate suspension parts to increase factory alignment adjustment range such as camber kits, camber plates, or slotted strut mounts)
Alternate main body panels (doors, hood, trunk lid, fenders, roof panel, windows)
Removal of factory interior parts (seats, interior panels)

Removal? Does this mean replacing a stock seat with a non-stock, high bolstered seat would change the classing?

[Loren]

Removal of factory interior parts (seats, interior panels)
Removal? Does this mean replacing a stock seat with a non-stock, high bolstered seat would change the classing?

If the factory part isn't there (whether it's been replaced with something else or not) it's been removed, right?

This is the simplest rule set in existence guys. Don't try to make it complicated.

[DeltaNu1142]

If the factory part isn't there (whether it's been replaced with something else or not) it's been removed, right?

Oh crap, I guess I'm going to have to put those rubber pedal pads back on...

[Loren]

If the factory part isn't there (whether it's been replaced with something else or not) it's been removed, right?

Oh crap, I guess I'm going to have to put those rubber pedal pads back on...

I really don't think anyone is going to nitpick about pedal pads. That's why we put examples like "seats" and "interior panels".

Geez guys, the whole point is that we don't want stripped interiors in our "stock" classes. We're not trying to be all nitpicky about it like SCCA, so don't ask us to!

[Jack]

you guys are still talking about this?
i guess its very hard to read the simple rules!

tires are the single thing that will make the most diffrence in any class!
then a good alignment to get the most out of tires and your driving style.

[Native]

Removal? Does this mean replacing a stock seat with a non-stock, high bolstered seat would change the classing?

I asked the same question about a year and a half ago.

If the factory part isn't there (whether it's been replaced with something else or not) it's been removed, right?

Got the same answer, too. Non-stock seat = modified. Heck, those seats aren't all that comfortable, anyways...

[Anonymous]

OK, how about if I replaced my rear view mirror with a Batman mirror?? Would that change anything??

[Loren]

OK, how about if I replaced my rear view mirror with a Batman mirror?? Would that change anything??

I don't think anybody's gonna sweat a mirror.

(if we were playing under SCCA rules, it would fall under the "comfort and convenience" allowance)

[Dave-ROR]

please lock this thread.

[WAFlowers]

please lock this thread.

Spoilsport!