Driver's Meetings

[kickslop]

There's one thing I've found to be true in autocrossing with different clubs: If there isn't a concise (not vague bullet points) checklist of things to cover in the driver's meeting, something always gets left out that ends up causing someone some grief.

I suspect we have a checklist of some sort already. I'm not convinced it's serving its purpose though.

Nobody should ever have to add something to what the driver's meeting speaker or safety speaker has said. It should all be covered every time with a simple check list.

PENALTIES
---- Cone tipped over, no matter in or out of box : call it
---- Cone 100% outside : call it
---- Cone standing but touching box : NO CALL
---- Pointer cone : NO CALL
---- blahblah....

WORKERS
---- Attentiveness
----------- No sitting
----------- blahblah...
---- Flag
----------- unfurled, loosely bunched and held
----------- Reasons to flag
----------- wave vigorously, safely
----------- blahblah...
---- Radio
----------- Face the wind when talking
----------- Pause 1 FULL second before speaking
----------- Calling in format:
--------------------"Station X, car YY, 1 cone"
--------------------"Station X, car YY, off course"
--------------------wait for confirmation
--------------------blahblah...

DRIVERS
---- Stop on course if you find a cone out of place. Point it out, get re run.
---- Out of control : 2 feet in, give up the run
---- Off course or after out of control : finish course at 7/10ths
---- blahblah...

BROOKSVILLE ONLY
---- Cement on one side
---- Farmer's fields
---- blahblah...

Just my opinion.

[Loren]

You're right on. The current driver's meeting checklist is pretty vague and could use some refinement. Anything that's not in a "script" is definitely prone to omission. Too much to cover, too much to forget. We need to always remember that we have first timers and relatively new folks all the time that need to be reminded of "the basics".

Couple things to add:
RADIOS - don't "yell" into the radio, speak clearly.
CHILDREN - anyone not of driving age should not be wandering around the grid area without an adult. Ever. Period. End of story. We need to be sure that people KNOW this and we (every single person at every event) need to ENFORCE it. Kids do dumb things when you least expect it. Somebody's kid is going to get hurt. Keep 'em in the safe areas and WITH AN ADULT. <end rant>

A couple of procedural suggestions...

Once we get the bullhorn or PA system sorted out, call the novice course walk well BEFORE the driver's meeting while people are already walking the course. This will save 30 minutes after the driver's meeting and get things rolling quicker.

Maybe do a two-stage driver's meeting. One where we cover the major event-specific info, then split out the novices and go over all the stuff that people who have been doing this for years already know. This would cut down on the chatter during that portion of the driver's meeting and with a smaller group, allow people to see and hear what's being said. Just a thought.

[Loren]

Oh, here's another one:

ABSOLUTELY NO "TIRE SCRUBBING" or anything that even resembles tire scrubbing, tire warming, brake pad bedding or anything else on or near any autocross site. We had several people driving circles in the paddock area yesterday for various reasons. As safe and benign as you may think it is, it makes us look bad. To the casual observer, it LOOKS like somebody out horsing around in an off-course area.

Worst of all... just like the situation with children, when one competitor sees someone else do it, they think it's okay... so they do it.

If you ever wonder why we're such hard-asses about some things, that's why. A line has to be drawn, and if you let anyone cross it, everyone else will want to follow.

[Anonymous]

I hate driver's meetings that go on forever. I think the only thing that should be covered in a drivers meeting are site specific information like...

BROOKSVILLE ONLY
---- Cement on one side
---- Farmer's fields
---- blahblah...

Everything else should be covered in the Novice walkthrough.

Or do like we did and print out and laminate a big sign with stuff like this on it...
http://www.cfrsolo2.com/Information/workers.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and make sure that everyone reads and understands these rules.
Then no rule is left out. Driver's meeting lasts 5 minutes tops, and it shifts responsibility of knowing the rules to the individuals.

edit: I think I mentioned this before, but I wrote that pdf above so you can use it, modify it, add to it, do whatever you want with it.

[Native]

I made a checklist for the Event Chair/Course Marshall for myself for the occasions I've made the speech at the drivers' meeting. It covered all the points Jeff mentioned. I honestly did not look at Jeremy's yet, but I'd imagine it's similar. I do plan to review it, and thanks for the permission to copy from it.

Sometimes, other chairs/course marshalls have used the checklist I put together. Others haven't. When I get around to updating our website and expanding the rules, the checklist will be there. Also rules such as Loren's good idea about tire warming as a no-no.

I agree with Jeremy about knowing the rules being the drivers' responsiblity, but even when we go over stuff like "courseworkers need to hold the flag, and stand," they still don't. Not telling them, I believe, will ony make matters worse. Also, telling them then justifies correcting them later (not that it needs justification). If event chairs would use a checklist, it would still only take 5 minutes to review - what drags the meeting out, and I'm guilty of this, is when 6 different people have to contribute, at times redundantly.

[kickslop]

I don't mind the meeting. I could do it blindfolded just like most people present... but it's a focused time for everyone to calm down from the mounting excitement and remember we need to be safe, etc. I think it's important for that reason alone, even for the experienced people. Maybe even especially for the experienced people who have gotten numb from nothing sketchy ever happening.

Regardless of the topics covered, it provides a serious 15 minute window for everyone to remember that it's a motorsports event with cars at 30-60MPH only 30 feet away in some areas. I think that serious time is important before any event.

Maybe that's just me.

I think the key is just to start it, flow through it, and then let everyone split with the last comment being, "Any questions, see me now."

As far as whose responsibility the rules are : I think putting a bore on experts for 5-10 minutes is far less costly than not going over the rules fully and having something missed that is the direct cause of an incident none of us want (and could very well be the end of the club's attendance at the site of the incident in question).

Once we get the bullhorn or PA system sorted out, call the novice course walk well BEFORE the driver's meeting while people are already walking the course. This will save 30 minutes after the driver's meeting and get things rolling quicker.

For sure.

Not only that, but the PA announcing the driver's meeting "in 5 minutes" gets everyone to the trailer and hanging around beforehand.

Something to add: Be in your car and ready to drive when your run group is active.

[Alizarin]

Regardless of the topics covered, it provides a serious 15 minute window for everyone to remember that it's a motorsports event with cars at 30-60MPH only 30 feet away in some areas. I think that serious time is important before any event.

That is an important point. We had somebody spin into the grass on Saturday, I believe in the first run group.

[Native]

and also in the first run group, at one point a call came in from a corner worker: " 2 cones for car XX, and he also almost hit two people." I answered: copy 2 cones, and if he's almost hitting people, where are the red flags??!! I got no answer.

If we're really serious about the safety aspect, it needs to be emphasized more than it already is, if you ask me. Joe Racer and Joe Novice just think they are out there to pick up cones.

[Jamie]

There's two faces to an incident like this. If there are workers out on the course, it's the driver's responsibility to avoid them and stop. If a driver spins or otherwise loses control of the car, however, they're Newton's hostage...it's now the workers' responsibility to get out of the way! Perhaps this needs to be added to the novice school syllabus and hammered on a bit at the drivers' meeting: while autocrossing is not a high-speed sport, it still involves keeping the car at the edge of control -- and sometimes that edge is crossed. Any courseworker believing they're safe if not alert, on their feet, and facing the oncoming car doesn't grasp how fast everything can happen.

[Anonymous]

I thought the finish was kind of close to foot traffic. I think it should be longer and have a 90* turn at the end. That way no one can "forget" to slow down after the finish.

I heard a couple people were not slowing down sufficiently and that short shut down area probably wouldn't cut it on a really hot summer day, when some people may be having pad fade.

Even though I shut down properly after the finish I still scared the crap out of one girl going to use the bathroom. It was mildly funny for me, but unnecessary.

See my map for an example of a good shut down area...
http://www.tamparacing.com/photopost/da" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ourse1.jpg
I think anything other than this is silly.

[kickslop]

I think any end-course area that doesn't require a complete full stop is silly.

IMO, one should have to brake 100% before a wall of cones, then maneuver out of a small hole in the end box.

You hit end cones, they count as penalties.

I've seen a lot of clubs do this, and it works. You'll get maybe 1 end cone hit the entire day and a drasticly safer environment.

[Loren]

Yeah, I could go for that. A complete stop box, but not one that is a "challenge" to stop for. Stop, think, get your head out of "race mode", proceed.

[Native]

I think it's a good idea, too.

[Dave-ROR]

That is a good idea, as long as it's long enough. I thought the last one was too short, I was engaging ABS and just BARELY getting to idle at the end of the cones, and I have upgrading pads (yes they are in the temp range for autocrossing).

The S2000 doesn't have the best brakes in the world, but they aren't that bad I'm sure some of the cars would have been hard pressed to go completely to idle in the distance allowed.

I'm all for a box with a sharp 90 degree, or a required full stop, etc, as long as it's placed after an acceptable distance. If any of us are close to lockup to slow down in time, that's not enough distance..

[kickslop]

It was a bit short. Another 15ft would have been decent.

However, I tend to notice people almost always still at wide open throttle (or just beginning to lift off of it) after the rear of their car is past the timing equipment.

Then again... nobody plowed through the end cones, so it clearly worked just fine as it was...

[AScoda]

If you look at the map, I originally had a much sharper element at the end that would have kept the speeds much lower through the lights. We ended up loosening it up a little to make sure no one ended up getting squirrelly, and putting the lights in danger. As it was, the finish probably should have been moved out another 25 or even 50 feet.

[Native]

We seem to always "short" the finish. It's one thing that seems to be consistently criticized. It is definitely time to do something about it: longer stopping room+forced idle speed back to grid=

[Dave-ROR]

Get another worker at the end. Driver is required to stop or will get a DNF.

Also, if the worker could get the driver's time they could tell the driver, that would not allow make sure the driver stops since they'll want their time, but also may keep some drivers in/around their cars instead of going to the trailer to check their time instead.